Updated BASIC Editor

[jregel]

Just having a quick play with the latest version.

Tom, what new editing keys did you implement? I'm not seeing new behaviour?

[tom_seddon]

There's none in this version - it has speed improvements, size reductions, and the program name-related changes. The stuff on my list of plans is so far just plans.

The version changelist in the GitHub releases page will definitely mention it when more stuff comes :)

Watch this space...

--Tom

[jregel]

Ah, sorry Tom.

I missed the "plans" bit

[tom_seddon]

I've added 1.42-beta, which has the new editing stuff: beginning/end of line, next/previous statement, and new edit mode shortcuts for ZSAVE and ZRUN. Feedback sought!

The BASIC integration stuff is still on the agenda in some form, though I realised it's going to be a bit more tricky to make it work with the second processor, so I need to sleep on it a bit more...

--Tom

[tom_seddon]

There wasn't much room left in the original Acornsoft ROM, so there can't have been all that much new code in there ... But on the bright side it doesn't look like the two halves interact in a very complicated way.

I was completely wrong about this, and it actually looks like it's a bit complicated :( - the ROMs do in fact communicate, there's a bunch of new code to handle it, and all the editor error messages appear to have moved into the utils half to make space for the extra stuff. So I'm not going to do this in the end, as I don't use the PRES utils myself.

--Tom

[jregel]

I've added 1.42-beta, which has the new editing stuff: beginning/end of line, next/previous statement, and new edit mode shortcuts for ZSAVE and ZRUN. Feedback sought!

The BASIC integration stuff is still on the agenda in some form, though I realised it's going to be a bit more tricky to make it work with the second processor, so I need to sleep on it a bit more...

--Tom

Sorry for the delay in responding. I've only just had a go with the 1.43 beta release and the new keyboard shortcuts for start/end of line and previous/next statement on line are great additions! Thank you for adding them!

I do notice The functionality that is described in the manual for CTRL-Up (first statement on screen) and CTRL-Down (last statement on screen) doesn't appear to work anymore. Is this intentional? I see in a previous comment you were considering changing this functionality to previous/next line, but I'm not sure if that gives much more than just normal cursor keys (especially as Shift-Tab does the beginning of the next line already).

If the CTRL-Up/CTRL-Down functionality could be restored, it would make navigating around really quick, using Shift-Up/Down to find the right screen (aka page up/page down), then CTRL-Up/Down to move the cursor near to the line you want to edit on the screen, followed by the new additions/modifications of moving left and right along a line.

Thanks!

[tom_seddon]

Sorry for the delay in responding. I've only just had a go with the 1.43 beta release and the new keyboard shortcuts for start/end of line and previous/next statement on line are great additions! Thank you for adding them!

...

If the CTRL-Up/CTRL-Down functionality could be restored, it would make navigating around really quick, using Shift-Up/Down to find the right screen (aka page up/page down), then CTRL-Up/Down to move the cursor near to the line you want to edit on the screen, followed by the new additions/modifications of moving left and right along a line.

Thanks for the feedback, and I'm very glad you managed to miss the disastrous 1.42-beta (of which we shall speak no more).

I'll tweak it so the old ctrl+up/ctrl+down comes back again. I made that change after figuring that the top/bottom of screen functionality was a bit useless (by which I mean: I've never used it myself), and that it could do with being replaced with something that struck me as probably a bit more useful. But having used the editor a bit since I made these changes, I've actually not found myself using the new next/prev line functionality either :) So I'll roll it back.

--Tom

P.S. if the editor has been behaving itself during your use of it, as it has been during mine, then the next version will probably also not be a beta. It's looking like the invasive changes of 1.41 haven't introduced any problems...

[jregel]

P.S. if the editor has been behaving itself during your use of it, as it has been during mine, then the next version will probably also not be a beta. It's looking like the invasive changes of 1.41 haven't introduced any problems...

My testing was primarily around the new keyboard changes, but I didn't notice anything else that was problematic.

[thearttrooper]

I am trying to load the BASICED.ROM into BeebEm. I added it to the ROM configuration of the Master 128 (ROM 8 ) but it doesn't show up in *ROMS. I made an SSD containing the ROM image and then used *SRLOAD BASICED 8000 4 but that results in a Channel error.

I'd like to go the sideways RAM route if that's possible so that i can try it on my real Master.



Chris.

[geraldholdsworth]

I am trying to load the BASICED.ROM into BeebEm. I added it to the ROM configuration of the Master 128 (ROM but it doesn't show up in *ROMS. I made an SSD containing the ROM image and then used *SRLOAD BASICED 8000 4 but that results in a Channel error.

Is it a valid ROM image?...i.e. make sure it has not been corrupted.
I've never seen a channel error with SRLOAD - only a Bad command (when I got the parameters the wrong way round). SRLOAD will load in non-ROM images (i.e. data) without reporting any errors (IIRC).

[tom_seddon]

I am trying to load the BASICED.ROM into BeebEm. I added it to the ROM configuration of the Master 128 (ROM 8) but it doesn't show up in *ROMS. I made an SSD containing the ROM image and then used *SRLOAD BASICED 8000 4 but that results in a Channel error.

I'd like to go the sideways RAM route if that's possible so that i can try it on my real Master.

Hmm, that should all work? - I had a quick go in BeebEm just now (I've got 4.14), adding the 1.43-beta BASICED.ROM as ROM 8, and it showed up in the *ROMS list. And there should certainly be no problem loading it in with *SRLOAD, as that's how I load it in myself on my real Master.

I've never seen a Channel error from SRLOAD either, so I'm not really sure what the problem could be, or what to suggest...

--Tom

[Coeus]

...and then used *SRLOAD BASICED 8000 4 but that results in a Channel error...

Is the file too big? I wonder if it is overwriting the filing system workspace and thus causing the channel error. The filing system workspace would be low on a BBC B but on a master I believe it is in some RAM that is paged over the VDU drivers in the OS ROM so if copying into a sideways RAM bank run past the end of the RAM bank with a filing system as the active ROM that workspace is probably what would get written to.

[sweh]

IIRC, *SRLOAD opens the file reads byte by byte.

So... do you get the same error if you use the "Q" flag to *SRLOAD? This is "quick" mode and loads the data into low memory then moves it into SWRam.

What SSD ROM are you using? Some of the older ones have bugs that you might be hitting, especially since they were based on old versions of DOS that don't understand Master high memory workspace.

[thearttrooper]

I was able to load the 1.43 beta ROM into BeebEm 4.14. Another dumb question: how do I make sure I am *EDIT into the right editor? Iv'e tried *UNPLUG <ROM> containing the standard Basic editor.

I also made a new SSD using the same BeebEm containing the ROM. This *SRLOADed correctly on my Master - no channel error. But I have the same challenge: how to be sure I'm loading the right editor.

Thanks.

[geraldholdsworth]

But I have the same challenge: how to be sure I'm loading the right editor.

*EDIT takes you into Edit
*BE takes you into The BASIC Editor

[thearttrooper]

Using BeebEm with the ROM loaded into sideways RAM (slot 4), *BE reports "Bad command". Clearly, I've been far too long gone from my beeb days. Suggestions welcomed.

[thearttrooper]

I turned on the "Basic Hardware Only" in BeebEm and the editor is working. Thanks everyone for your help.

[tom_seddon]

There's a new version of the BASIC editor out! Get ver 1.44 from GitHub: https://github.com/tom-seddon/basic_edi ... r/releases

What's new:

• Reinstate old CTRL+up/down behaviour
• Fix screen drawing bug
• More reliably clear screen before returning to command mode
• Switch to Mode 135/Mode 7 when loading a file that's too large for the current mode
• Fix occasionally missing output when using *BR or *BZ
• Add separate IFIND, ICHANGE and QICHANGE commands for case-insensitive searching. CASE and NOCASE are gone
• You can press SHIFT+ESCAPE in edit mode to get back to BASIC
• When not in the second processor, you can (optionally - see docs) press SHIFT+ESCAPE in BASIC to get back to The BASIC Editor

--Tom

[Yrrah2]

Nice work Tom!

Cheers

[Rfairman]

Hi Tom

love the new Basic Editor

One question, i am programming in control basic
Does the Editor simply act as a simple word processor or does it always call basic when Run is used

Is there a way of calling Control Basic when Run is used I supposed i could save the edited file and then run it from disc

Whoever designed the built in BBC B editor must have had a perverse sense of humour I have never been able to fathom it out or even follow the written instructions

regards

Richard

[tom_seddon]

Hi Tom

love the new Basic Editor

One question, i am programming in control basic
Does the Editor simply act as a simple word processor or does it always call basic when Run is used

Is there a way of calling Control Basic when Run is used I supposed i could save the edited file and then run it from disc

Whoever designed the built in BBC B editor must have had a perverse sense of humour I have never been able to fathom it out or even follow the written instructions

Hi Richard,

Thanks for the kind words. I'm glad you like it!

The editor isn't a word processor or text editor as such - it works directly with the BBC BASIC tokenized format. So it's only compatible with BBC BASIC.

I've briefly tried Control Basic in an emulator, using the disk image you posted, and it looks like it might be an extension to BBC BASIC, rather than an entirely separate program. This suggests it might be feasible to support it, which is something I'd be very happy to do, if it proves not too much work.

It's not obvious what extra functionality it's providing, though! What can I do to test it out?

Thanks,

--Tom

[Rfairman]

Hi

I was given this code to list the control basic command but i could not get it to work

Unless it implements a HELP command, your best bet is something like:
FOR A%=&8000 TO &BFFF
IF ?A%>64:IF ?A%<96:VDU ?A% ELSE IF POS PRINT
NEXT A%

I have asked for a copy of the control basic documentation from the museum in Cambridge hopefully as a pdf and I will post it here

Regards

Richard

[Wheel_nut]

Hi Tom, A couple of questions before I attempt to use Version 1.44 on my BBC B:

1) Do all of the commands documented in the Basic Editor V1.32 PDF Manual still work exactly as documented?

2) Is there an "addendum" document to the V1.32 PDF Manual showing the additional commands and functions of V1.44.

Thank you for what looks like an impressive piece of work and I am looking forward to using it.

Robin

[tom_seddon]

Hi Robin,

1) Do all of the commands documented in the Basic Editor V1.32 PDF Manual still work exactly as documented?

The command mode commands should all behave the same, but some of the edit mode keyboard shortcuts are different. Which leads us neatly on to...

2) Is there an "addendum" document to the V1.32 PDF Manual showing the additional commands and functions of V1.44.

Such as it is, that's here: https://github.com/tom-seddon/basic_edi ... ocs/doc.md

It doesn't go into very much detail (please let me know if there's anything that's not clear enough!), but I think it covers everything. I do try to keep it updated when I add new stuff.

Thanks,

--Tom

P.S. the edit mode key changes mean that the normal function key strip is not quite right any more! - I do plan on making a PDF with an updated one, that you can print and cut out...

[Wheel_nut]

Hi Tom and thank you for your very detailed answers to my queries. I have copied the addendum documentation and added it to my manual.

It may be some time before I can give you some meaningful feedback but I will install it and use it.

Best regards, Robin

[Coeus]

Tom:Not sure if you've had a look at the Advanced Basic Editor Code that ACP sold, here. But if there's anything in there that would be of use, please help yourself. No issues with (c) as this version is with Baildon Electronics - So, now available to all

I had a quick look but I can't seem to find any code that's related to the bit that's like the Acornsoft BASIC Editor - if you do a search for the string "are strings", for example (as printed by the HELP command) then nothing turns up. I'll be having a proper look through what's there soon though

I downloaded the files EDITORA100 and EDITORB100 from mdfs.net which I think are a version of the the P.R.E.S editor, patched by JGH, to run from adjacent sideways RAM (or ROM) banks rather than needing the 32K byte EPROM on a board with a PLD. Tracing the language entry of that gives suspiciously similar code. From your github:

Code: Select all

language_start:
                .if ENABLE_DEBUG
                jsr reset_debug_values
                .endif

                JSR     init_brkv_and_oshwm
                JSR     clear_line_commands
                JSR     sub_B358
                LDX     #5
                STX     tab_value
                LDX     #$60 ; '`'
                STX     cursor_size
                LDX     #0
                STX     search_string_length
                INX
                STX     is_insert_mode  ; 0=overtype 1=insert
                STX     is_scroll_on   ; 1=scroll, 0=noscroll
                LDA     #$E4
                JSR     osbyte_with_y0
                JSR     clear_5B1_to_600
                ldx     #$ff
                JSR     get_HIMEM_for_mode_X
                LDA     #0              ; black.

and tracing the lower ROM of the PRES set:

Code: Select all

8E52: C9 01       CMP #01     >s
8E54: F0 01       BEQ 8E57    >s
8E57: 20 0A 8F    JSR 8F0A    >n
8E5A: 20 51 A8    JSR A851    >n
8E5D: 20 CE AD    JSR ADCE    >n
8E60: 20 C1 9D    JSR 9DC1    >n
8E63: A2 05       LDX #05     >s
8E65: 86 61       STX 61      >s
8E67: A2 00       LDX #00     >s
8E69: A9 D2       LDA #D2     >s
8E6B: 20 DF AF    JSR AFDF    >n
8E6E: A2 60       LDX #60     >s
8E70: 86 31       STX 31      >s
8E72: A2 00       LDX #00     >s
8E74: 86 3C       STX 3C      >s
8E76: 86 62       STX 62      >s
8E78: E8          INX         >s
8E79: 86 3D       STX 3D      >s
8E7B: A9 E4       LDA #E4     >s
8E7D: 20 DF AF    JSR AFDF    >n
8E80: 20 C9 AF    JSR AFC9    >n
8E83: A9 87       LDA #87     >s
8E85: 20 F4 FF    JSR FFF4    >n

which seems remarkably similar.

[daveejhitchins]

which seems remarkably similar.

Any code that JGH has is 'exactly' the same code that P.R.E.S./ACP sold on behalf of Baildon Electronics. We (Baildon Electronics) purchased a licence from Altra (Leeds) but didn't have our own marketing capabilities.

I was hoping the the Editor could be 'maintained' e.g. updated, however, what I thought was the source code turned out not to be complete. I still hope to find the rest . . .

Dave H.

[tom_seddon]

I had a quick look but I can't seem to find any code that's related to the bit that's like the Acornsoft BASIC Editor - if you do a search for the string "are strings", for example (as printed by the HELP command) then nothing turns up. I'll be having a proper look through what's there soon though

I downloaded the files EDITORA100 and EDITORB100 from mdfs.net which I think are a version of the the P.R.E.S editor, patched by JGH, to run from adjacent sideways RAM (or ROM) banks rather than needing the 32K byte EPROM on a board with a PLD. Tracing the language entry of that gives suspiciously similar code. From your github:

At that point I'd only got as far as having a quick skim through the source code, and hadn't examined the ROMs. I later had a more in-depth look later, and it looked like the code in the ROMs, while looking kind of familiar, had been shuffled around a bit to make things fit:

it actually looks like it's a bit complicated - the ROMs do in fact communicate, there's a bunch of new code to handle it, and all the editor error messages appear to have moved into the utils half to make space for the extra stuff. So I'm not going to do this in the end, as I don't use the PRES utils myself.

This just felt like it would be more work to reverse engineer than I fancied taking on - as this isn't really something I'd use myself, as I don't typically have enough ROM slots free to justify spending 2 of them on the BASIC Editor. But I'd certainly be amenable (subject to there being room!) to adding extra code to the updated version to get it interoperating with the PRES stuff, or some modified version of it.

--Tom

[Coeus]

Any code that JGH has is 'exactly' the same code that P.R.E.S./ACP sold on behalf of Baildon Electronics. We (Baildon Electronics) purchased a licence from Altra (Leeds) but didn't have our own marketing capabilities.

I think you mentioned that before and I had read that as "The lower ROM cannot be the Acornsoft one as we didn't license it from Acornsoft" which was why I was then surprised to find that they obviously have a common root, though the P.R.E.S one does seem to be a more recent development.

So I am not not sure I understand what you licensed and what you (Basildon Electronic) created. If it was the lower (editor) ROM you licensed perhaps that means Acornsoft also licensed it, or they sold it to Altra. I was also wondering whether you would have ever had the source code or whether Altra would have put the ROM switch hook in for you and you then just had to write the higher ROM but that was before I read Tom's post about error messages for the lower ROM being in the upper ROM. It would be difficult to do that kind of reorganisation without having the source code to both.

I was hoping the the Editor could be 'maintained' e.g. updated, however, what I thought was the source code turned out not to be complete. I still hope to find the rest . . .

I can think of at least two ways it could be:

• Include a hook into the utils ROM from Tom's updated version of the editor, preferably one that intelligently discovers if the 2nd ROM is present. That would immediately take advantage of the enhancements Tom has done whilst also leaving the possibility of further enhancements in the utils ROM. Tom has already suggested he could do that.
• Use Tom's re-assemblable disassembly of the Acornsoft version of the lower ROM to inform a disassembly of the later (Altra) lower ROM and then work from that.

But, if you discover the source code that obviously removes the need for disassembly.

[Coeus]

I was completely wrong about this, and it actually looks like it's a bit complicated - the ROMs do in fact communicate, there's a bunch of new code to handle it, and all the editor error messages appear to have moved into the utils half to make space for the extra stuff. So I'm not going to do this in the end, as I don't use the PRES utils myself.

I obviously missed this when reading the thread. It's a pity it's that complicated. What I was hoping we might find is that the editor was self contained in the lower ROM of the PRES pair, and thus able to be stand-alone, and that there was a mechanism by which this lower ROM would offer commands to the upper ROM (if present) if they weren't built in, i.e. if they weren't implemented in the lower ROM.

I am certainly intrigued, now.