anybody used a Slogger Plus 2?

[aerworuld]

Hey all!

I've been reading about the Plus 2 interface produced by Slogger - appartently in was an uncased add-on that provided:

2 cartridge slots
3 ROM sockets
RS423
User Port
Battery backed SWR

Priced at £34.95 in the year it appeared (1988) it seems a pretty impressive piece of kit. I'd never really come across this before and wondered if anyone knew how many were made or if they ever appear second-hand?

Seems it was designed for an Electron RX but would work uncased with a regular-joe Elk

Stuart

[Advance]

I have a Plus 2 in an RX case. It is and does all you say except that battery backed swr was not fitted. Provision was made on the pcb to install your own, though.
It came fairly late in the life of Slogger so I doubt that there were many sold, relatively speaking.
I have never seen one for sale on ebay or elsewhere so maybe you shouldn't hold your breath while looking.
Of course, you can always make your own user port, rom/ram and UPURS board: http://www.stardot.org.uk/forums/downlo ... hp?id=4991 and http://www.stardot.org.uk/forums/viewto ... 180#p54530
I'm hoping to assemble mine after Christmas. It's a lot cheaper than the Plus2.
Hugh

[MartinB]

Of course, you can always make your own user port, rom/ram and UPURS board:

Ah, I think Stuart perhaps meant...

2 cartridge slots
3 ROM sockets
*** RS423 ***
User Port
Battery backed SWR

EDIT : Hugh - love the avatar

[paulv]

I have a Plus 2 in an RX case. Hugh

As pictured here

Paul

[daveejhitchins]

Hugh - love the avatar

OK, own up . . . Who's tried to squish the crawly thing - - - apart from me

Dave H

[aerworuld]

That's the hot potato part Martin!

Its like a cookie-trail for me on a yellow brick road!

[VincentVega]

I once actually had a tiny creepy crawly inside an LCD monitor. I sent it back to the manufacturer (Eizo) for them to try and fish it out but they couldn't find it - I think it must have been fried by the heat and dropped down to the bottom of the case.

[Elk Towers]

Stuart

Have a look at this topic

http://stardot.org.uk/forums/viewtopic. ... ger#p17348

If you scroll down you will see he has some bare plus 2 boards and if someone who has a plus 2 was willing to put a pic up of their populated plus 2, one could make one, assuming all the components are still available.


Nick

[aerworuld]

Stuart

Have a look at this topic

http://stardot.org.uk/forums/viewtopic. ... ger#p17348

If you scroll down you will see he has some bare plus 2 boards and if someone who has a plus 2 was willing to put a pic up of their populated plus 2, one could make one, assuming all the components are still available.


Nick

Nick, thank you so much for the lead!

Stuart

[aerworuld]

When I saw photograph number 7 in the PCB ones I nearly jumped out of my chair!

[Advance]

MartinB wrote:

Stuart's mind wrote:
2 cartridge slots
3 ROM sockets
*** RS423 ***
User Port
Battery backed SWR

But there ain't no RS423 port on a Plus 2, I thought.
And so it niggled and niggled and niggled until I kicked started my ailing PC and dredged through what remains of my, admittedly chaotic, files.
The Slogger catalogue puts it like this:

Slogger is pleased to announce the release of its PLUS 2 interface for the Electron computer. The PLUS 2 has been designed to fit between the Electron and the Acorn PLUS 1/ROMBOX+ and provides two more cartridge expansion slots, three EPROM/Sideways RAM sockets and has the supporting circuitry for the User Port and the RS423 interfaces.

It's on page 29 of the attached catalogue and the words "circuitry" and "supporting" tell the story.
I added a user port to use a (then) very cutting-edge mouse but there was - I think - a question mark over the RS423 circuit. That could be complete cock due to failing memory syndrome; it's a very long time ago.
Didn't realise, of course, that Stuart was already a UPURS disciple.
Dave H wrote:

OK, own up . . . Who's tried to squish the crawly thing - - - apart from me

Me. That's why I thought others should make tits of themselves too.
Hugh

SloggerCatalogue.zip

(33.46 KiB) Downloaded 127 times

[aerworuld]

Don't suppose anybody has come across the manual for the Plus 2 have they? I was hoping to find a scan or copy but haven't managed to turn up much....

[Advance]

Try here:
http://www.stardot.org.uk/forums/viewto ... 265#p55258

I'm fairly sure I uploaded a copy to BBC Docs but you might have to rummage around to find it in its present form.

If you have no joy I'll try to track down my copy - it's very basic if I remember correctly.

[aerworuld]

Thanks Hugh, I've found your RX docs on there but wasn't able to track down the Plus 2 one. If its not too much to ask I would be really grateful if you got a chance

[Advance]

Hi Stuart,
I'll try to have something for you tonight. Can't find the original manual or any scan file but I know I have a photocopy of the manual so I'll use that. I have a new scanner which I haven't tried yet so it might take a bit longer than usual.
H.

[aerworuld]

Thank you!

[Advance]

Here you are Stuart, got to this sooner than I thought I would.
As you will see, this is a very basic driver's handbook and is very short on information. Most of Slogger's manuals were in this rough printed format.
Slogger at this stage was a bit chaotic and basically in it's death throes. IIRC a lot of stuff was being flogged off cheaply and I filled my boots.
There is, though, a bonus on page five. This is a mod to the Plus 2 user port.
Given that this was half a lifetime ago, I think this was actually drawn by Andrew Hilbig himself, in response to one of many questions I had for him regarding the RX, but I cannot now for the life of me remember what the mod was and I never carried it out on my board.
I suspect some of the more knowledgeable Stardotters will be able to provide a suggestion or two.
I also will not be surprised if you find that this manual raises more questions than it answers. For example, at one point Hilbig makes a fleeting reference to battery backing the SWR and mentions "the Plus 2 schematic". I certainly never received a schematic.
Hugh

Plus2.zip

(550.12 KiB) Downloaded 135 times

[aerworuld]

Greatly appreciated Hugh; thank you once again for taking the trouble to do this

The project is a bit of a shot in the dark for me and i'm hoping it will take me a bit closer to realising my Elk RS423 dream but i'm approaching the whole thing with an open mind and whatever happens, it's a great way for me to learn more about things!!

Thanks again,
Stuart

[Prime]

As Arcadian has some blank PCBs, if he can get a couple to me, and someone can do a close up shot of the board so I can see what chips go where, I could try tracing a schematic for it....which is *MUCH* easier to do with a blank board

Cheers.

Phill.

[aerworuld]

Phill, i found this shot of a populated board over on 8BS -

Plus 2 board

i've been staring blankly at it for the last ten minutes trying to figure it out!

page 29 of the Slogger catalogue says this:

"Similar to the User Port, the RS423 upgrade kit is a matter of inserting the components into the sockets, attaching the RS423 socket to the rear of the RX case and soldering the 5 wires between the socket and the pads provided on the PLUS 2."

and i've been trying to figure out where said wires connect for the RS423 socket...

sadly i may as well be trying to speak Orc, but i'll get there

*edit* i've bitten the bullet and purchased a blank plus 2 board from Dave (Arcadian) and i've begun my search for components. I've found some pcb-mounted card edge connectors on ebay from China with free postage for £2.85 (how do they do that???) but i was hoping somebody could confirm these are the correct ones to get for the two cartridge slots?

Also i'm not sure which one to get to take the connector from the Elk; i wondered if anybody had come across these?

[aerworuld]

As Arcadian has some blank PCBs, if he can get a couple to me, and someone can do a close up shot of the board so I can see what chips go where, I could try tracing a schematic for it....which is *MUCH* easier to do with a blank board

Phill, I've bought 2 boards from Dave so that I have a spare in case I mess up; I would be happy to send one over if it would help with schematic production?

Stuart

[Prime]

Phill, i found this shot of a populated board over on 8BS -

Plus 2 board

Ahh that should do.

*edit* i've bitten the bullet and purchased a blank plus 2 board from Dave (Arcadian) and i've begun my search for components. I've found some pcb-mounted card edge connectors on ebay from China with free postage for £2.85 (how do they do that???) but i was hoping somebody could confirm these are the correct ones to get for the two cartridge slots?

No those are deffo NOT the correct connectors the pitch (distance between contacts) is too wide they are 3.96mm / 0.156" the correct ones for the Electron are 2.54mm / 0.1" pitch. It should be possible to get ISA bus connectors and cut those down for both the slot connectos and the board to electron connector.

Maplin do the ISA connectors :

http://www.maplin.co.uk/2.54mm-0.1-inch ... ector-1414

This series at rapid also looks correct :

http://www.rapidonline.com/Cables-Conne ... ors-502218

Cheers.

Phill.

[Prime]

Phill, I've bought 2 boards from Dave so that I have a spare in case I mess up; I would be happy to send one over if it would help with schematic production?

Cheers Stuart, I'll keep that in mind, Arcadian will hopefully be popping in to see me in the near future as I have some Masters of his I've been replacing the batteries on (amongst other things).

Cheers.

Phill.

[aerworuld]

thanks for the heads-up!

[1024MAK]

As Arcadian has some blank PCBs, if he can get a couple to me, and someone can do a close up shot of the board so I can see what chips go where, I could try tracing a schematic for it....which is *MUCH* easier to do with a blank board

Phill, I've bought 2 boards from Dave so that I have a spare in case I mess up; I would be happy to send one over if it would help with schematic production?

Stuart

You could also pop a blank board in a scanner, (both sides), then post a link to the images produced...

There are four empty sockets on the picture of the board you linked to.

One is a blue 40 pin socket for a 6522 VIA to provide the "USER" port. One is a 14 pin socket (most likely for a "TTL" logic chip).

That leaves two, both 16 pin sockets. Now, I cannot think of a serial port UART / ACIA / SCI that fits a 16 pin socket (remember it needs 2 power pins, 8 pins for the data bus, a chip select, a write control, at least one address/register control input, a clock input, a "RX" serial input and a "TX" serial output (and that's not taking into account RTS and CTS). If you have a look at the data sheet for the MC6850 ACIA you will see that it comes in a 24 pin DIL package.

A line driver chip is also needed. And of course, a lot of "TTL" logic chips also come in 16 pin DIL packages.

So it may be that adding the serial port on this board is not a simple as was hoped .

If I were to speculate, I would suggest that either the serial port uses the serial-parallel shift registers in the 6522 VIA, or it uses a "TTL" logic chip to do the same, or it is a bit-bashed serial port. See here for UART / ACIA / SCI info

Hmm, more of a mystery, more questions...

Mark

[aerworuld]

You could also pop a blank board in a scanner, (both sides), then post a link to the images produced...

That's not a bad plan - will do that when they arrive. I will also scan in the Slogger RS423 board, just for fun

There are four empty sockets on the picture of the board you linked to.

One is a blue 40 pin socket for a 6522 VIA to provide the "USER" port. One is a 14 pin socket (most likely for a "TTL" logic chip).

I was hoping to be able to leave them empty as I have Martins most excellent EUP now so they're not needed.

That leaves two, both 16 pin sockets. Now, I cannot think of a serial port UART / ACIA / SCI that fits a 16 pin socket (remember it needs 2 power pins, 8 pins for the data bus, a chip select, a write control, at least one address/register control input, a clock input, a "RX" serial input and a "TX" serial output (and that's not taking into account RTS and CTS). If you have a look at the data sheet for the MC6850 ACIA you will see that it comes in a 24 pin DIL package.

A line driver chip is also needed. And of course, a lot of "TTL" logic chips also come in 16 pin DIL packages.

So it may be that adding the serial port on this board is not a simple as was hoped .

If I were to speculate, I would suggest that either the serial port uses the serial-parallel shift registers in the 6522 VIA, or it uses a "TTL" logic chip to do the same, or it is a bit-bashed serial port. See here for UART / ACIA / SCI info

it wouldn't be as simple as somehow connecting to the Slogger RS423 thats coming would it? From the photo of that on Arcadians original post, i cant see an edge connector on it so I guessed (rather blindly) that it might be for secondary connection to something else?

Hmm, more of a mystery, more questions...

Mark

Getting used to that sir! I refuse to do anything the easy way though keep my eyes on the prey, not the horizon

Stuart

[aerworuld]

I also will not be surprised if you find that this manual raises more questions than it answers. For example, at one point Hilbig makes a fleeting reference to battery backing the SWR and mentions "the Plus 2 schematic". I certainly never received a schematic.
Hugh

I was wondering, do we have any contact details for Andrew Hilbig?

[1024MAK]

it wouldn't be as simple as somehow connecting to the Slogger RS423 thats coming would it? From the photo of that on Arcadians original post, i cant see an edge connector on it so I guessed (rather blindly) that it might be for secondary connection to something else?

You never know... It's not a great picture, but it does look like it may take a UART / ACIA

Mark

[aerworuld]

You never know... It's not a great picture, but it does look like it may take a UART / ACIA

Mark

Just a few short words can hold so much promise! i'll scan an image of it along with the Plus 2 board when it arrives and maybe we might get a better idea......

As far as the Plus 2 goes, i've gone ahead and ordered the edge connectors and the IC sockets and pin headers, i'm just trying to make out a component list of whats left:

Please feel free to laugh out loud at my suggestions

Resistors (left to right)

unknown
20kohms ?
4600 ohms
unknown

Capacitors

2 x unknown down by Elk connection

(Capacitors?)

10 x unknown

Diode

unknown, close to jumper at top

ICs

74LS175N
2 x 74LS20N
74LS04N
2 x 74LS00N
T74LS06B1 or T74LS0BB1 or T74LS0881 (can't read this one)
74LS260N
74LS30N
74LS139AN
T74LS00B1
DM74S02N
74LS133PC
I would also like to populate the two empty sockets top right but have no clue!



Stuart

*edit* there is now a working complete component list for the Plus 2 (not including user port) on page 3 of this thread

[jms2]

Wow - great work Stuart! I'd taken my eye off this thread for a few days and I'm amazed how much progress has been made.

That one you can't read looks to me like "T74LS06B1" - and I can find references to these being made by ST. It could also be T74LS08B1 (these appear to exist as well) but to my eyes it looks more like 06.

Also I suggest that there is a diode top centre near the jumpers?

The capacitors are for decoupling and so their values are not likely to be very critical. I'm sure you will get some suggestions for what to use.

I'm intrigued by the little RS423 board - I wonder if it plugs into the mystery 16 pin socket on the Plus 2?

EDIT:

I have been staring intently at the little board and I think it does plug in, using the 16-pin feature bottom right (of the small board) to connect into the empty 16-pin socket near the ADFS rom on the Plus 2. In this position, the daughterboard would sit neatly on top of the space next to the 6522, covering up that chip we can't read and its neighbour. Just a guess though!

Some other encouraging observations:

1) There is definitely a 24 pin feature on the daughterboard.
2) The IC spaces appear to be marked with what ICs need to go in them. On one space I can definitely see "7400" (this is a NAND gate) whereas the other one says "7404" which appears to be some kind of buffer.

I don't know anything about RS423 interfaces - is it possible that the physical connector would be shared with the user port? I can't see anywhere for another connector to solder on.