Arch games that are better than the Amiga Versions

[RichP]

As an Amiga CD32 owner (don't laugh, it is a terrible console *but* it can play pretty much all Amiga games - and on CD too) i am interested in which multiformat games are better on the Arch than the Amiga. I am mainly interested in the standard Amiga versions rather than the Amiga AGA versions

Obviously some games should be but then you wonder how much effort the developers would have put in at the time to make the Arch version better. I also suspect it would be easier to port the Atari ST version than the Amiga one... I am particularly interested in Populous because i remember the original on the Amiga was written in C , so surely the Arch version must be a lot faster? Does it look better too? (the Amiga version would either be 16 or 32 colours on screen)

What other games are better?

Thank you

[paulv]

I haven't played that many games on the Arc and the ones that are cross platform can be counted on two fingers!

I'd have to say that Speedball II is the equal of the Amiga version with one proviso. No joystick support... It plays exactly as the Amiga version and is super fast to boot so no complaints from me on that one.

The other game isn't really fair to compare as it's an Arc game first ported to the Amiga, ST etc. and that is Zarch proted as Virus. Clearly Zarch was the first and best

Never had an ST but a few friends did. I can't remember any games on the ST that were better than the equivalent on the Amiga but then I didn't get to play on the ST's that often..

Paul

[Rich Talbot-Watkins]

Lemmings on the Archimedes was more-or-less equivalent graphically to the Amiga version, but had much better music. And of course the music is half of the fun with Lemmings

[TopBanana]

No joystick support is just plain daft Regardless of whether it was a serious computer or not, games drove early computing so I never understood the lack of a joystick port on the Archimedes range (A3010 withstanding)

Some games never got ported to the Amiga from the ST, Bards Tale and Oids spring to mind and they are great games. Others came out first on the ST and took ages to port - Dungeon Master was out for ages on the ST and ran on 512k whereas the Amiga version needed 1Mb. This was back in the day when both machines came with 512k as standard, so you had to fork out nearly £100 for another 512k just to play DM - and I did

The ST had a slight faster clock speed (8Mhz vs 7.14Mhz) than the Amiga (original versions), so for games like Star Wars and Starglider - the ST versions were smoother/faster.

I think there are quite a few cross platform games - Elite immediately springs to mind and the Archimedes version is regarded by some as the best. Xenon II was also ported to the Archimedes (another Bitmap bothers game), I think there were other Bitmap games such as Gods and The Chaos Engine,but can't be sure.

Other multi-platform games I can think of are SWIV, Zool, Lemmings, but I think it's fair to say that generally the Amiga versions were the better ones .... it may be shallow but things like the copper lists and hardware sprites along with much better sound (than the ST at least) just raised the bar a little and made in the machine to have.

The ST & Amiga never got some games like Chocks Away or SF3000 as far as I'm aware and they're fab

[MatthewThompson]

I played Cannon Fodder on the Amiga and it was pretty much the same as the Archimedes version I seem to remember. I did see Lotus Turbo Challenge 2 on the Atari ST and the Arc version is much better.

[MatthewThompson]

No joystick support is just plain daft Regardless of whether it was a serious computer or not, games drove early computing so I never understood the lack of a joystick port on the Archimedes range (A3010 withstanding)

Some games never got ported to the Amiga from the ST, Bards Tale and Oids spring to mind and they are great games. Others came out first on the ST and took ages to port - Dungeon Master was out for ages on the ST and ran on 512k whereas the Amiga version needed 1Mb. This was back in the day when both machines came with 512k as standard, so you had to fork out nearly £100 for another 512k just to play DM - and I did

The ST had a slight faster clock speed (8Mhz vs 7.14Mhz) than the Amiga (original versions), so for games like Star Wars and Starglider - the ST versions were smoother/faster.

I think there are quite a few cross platform games - Elite immediately springs to mind and the Archimedes version is regarded by some as the best. Xenon II was also ported to the Archimedes (another Bitmap bothers game), I think there were other Bitmap games such as Gods and The Chaos Engine,but can't be sure.

Other multi-platform games I can think of are SWIV, Zool, Lemmings, but I think it's fair to say that generally the Amiga versions were the better ones .... it may be shallow but things like the copper lists and hardware sprites along with much better sound (than the ST at least) just raised the bar a little and made in the machine to have.

The ST & Amiga never got some games like Chocks Away or SF3000 as far as I'm aware and they're fab

Chaos Engine and Gods did indeed appear on the Archimedes, some other ones which appeared were Diggers, Magic Pockets, Sensible Soccer, Fire & Ice (the Arc version of this didn't have the coloured backgrounds and looks rather drab compared to the Amiga version) another good conversion was Alone In the Dark, the Arc version is identical to the PC version from what I could see except the music was missing.

[RichP]

Thanks of all the replies I have Elite on Archimedes (my 1 game, no machine yet though!).

Lemmings on the Archimedes was more-or-less equivalent graphically to the Amiga version, but had much better music. And of course the music is half of the fun with Lemmings

thats interesting to me because i sold my Lemmings when i sold my A500. thank you.

Some games never got ported to the Amiga from the ST, Bards Tale and Oids spring to mind and they are great games

I really wanted Oids - that was annoying. I love Thrust on the BBC, so Oids would have been great. I thought Bard's Tale was on the Amiga, because i had a demo of it on a maagzine disk, it might even have been the full game (from those crazy days when you got loads of free games on cover disks)

The ST had a slight faster clock speed (8Mhz vs 7.14Mhz) than the Amiga (original versions), so for games like Star Wars and Starglider - the ST versions were smoother/faster.

yes they always said that in magazine reviews for flight simulators and other 3D games. I always wondered why the Amiga version wasnt faster because surely they could use the blitter to draw lines and do fills? but maybe it 'stole' clock-cycles from the CPU? or they didnt bother using the blitter for ease of porting.

Would be particularly interested to hear how Gods and Sensible Soccer compare. Though i hope those do have joystick support.

[SarahWalker]

I thought Bard's Tale was on the Amiga

It was.

yes they always said that in magazine reviews for flight simulators and other 3D games. I always wondered why the Amiga version wasnt faster because surely they could use the blitter to draw lines and do fills? but maybe it 'stole' clock-cycles from the CPU? or they didnt bother using the blitter for ease of porting.

Porting would be the main reason - most of those games would be from the era where the ST was the dominant platform.

Would be particularly interested to hear how Gods and Sensible Soccer compare. Though i hope those do have joystick support.

Both are pretty much the same as the Amiga versions, except for inferior music (in Gods case due to bugs). Gods only supports serial port joysticks, I think Sensi supports A3010 joysticks.

[RobC]

I think Sensi supports A3010 joysticks.

Yes it does - I spent hours playing it with my flatmates on my A3010 when I was at Uni.

[1024MAK]

The ST had a slight faster clock speed (8Mhz vs 7.14Mhz) than the Amiga (original versions), so for games like Star Wars and Starglider - the ST versions were smoother/faster.

yes they always said that in magazine reviews for flight simulators and other 3D games. I always wondered why the Amiga version wasnt faster because surely they could use the blitter to draw lines and do fills? but maybe it 'stole' clock-cycles from the CPU? or they didnt bother using the blitter for ease of porting.

<Warning - going very off topic >
The Atari BLiTTER (as fitted as standard on Mega ST's and STE's but which could be fitted to most Atari ST's) could run in these modes:
1, HOG mode - take full control of the bus until the whole operation is complete (e.g. block move). The BLiTTER will yield to other DMA devices (e.g. disk access). Also note that some MPU cycles can take place that do not need the bus, or which can access the bus during the small amount of time that the bus is not claimed by either the BLiTTER or DMA device.
2, "Shared" mode (my name). Carry out part of the operation, then allow the MPU to have control of the bus. Then the BLiTTER continues. The BLiTTER and MPU take turns having control of the bus for 64 bus cycles each until the operation is complete. Again the BLiTTER will yield to other DMA devices.

On the Atari the normal RAM area is accessed to process the video picture in the time in-between normal (MPU/BLiTTER/DMA) bus accesses.
The important point is that only one device can control the bus at anyone time.
I'm sure I read somewhere that the arrangements in the Amiga were much the same

[Sureshot]

Pacmania is probably slightly better on the Archie. Even Shaun Hollingworth thinks so.

[danielj]

Pacmania is probably slightly better on the Archie. Even Shaun Hollingworth thinks so.

I am unable to get the PacMania music out of my head. ARGH.

d.

[RichP]

@1024 Mak interesting information about the blitter, yes i would guess it's pretty similar on the Amiga.

Thanks for info about Pacmania, i still havent got my Arch but i have been playing Zarch on the emulator. I should try out some of these games

[tautology]

Most of the ports were pretty much like for like, with a couple of exceptions:

• Pacmania as has already been mentioned
• Paradroid 2000, benefited from the Arc's slightly taller screen resolution and palette.

[vanpeebles]

My acorn vids on youtube can be used for various comparisons personally I loved the music on acorn lemmings.

http://uk.youtube.com/user/peetvanpeebles

[davidb]

My acorn vids on youtube can be used for various comparisons personally I loved the music on acorn lemmings.

http://uk.youtube.com/user/peetvanpeebles

Thanks for making those videos. I think I must have watched most of them!

[vanpeebles]

Cheers! I should really get back to doing them, maybe during the xmas holidays

[davidb]

There are still a few games not recorded on YouTube, I think. I noticed that someone has been uploading videos of demos recently. Those are quite interesting, too. Oh, and someone recorded videos of the earlier Sisteme/Eterna games, Ballarena and Tactic.

Games I haven't seen on YouTube include Magnetoids, Karma Flight Trainer, Deadline, Warlocks, Provocator. I'm sure others can think of a few more. The Archimedes Software Preservation Project thread on the Icon Bar has a nice list of games, as I'm sure you're aware.

[vanpeebles]

I have Karma boxed but need to learn how to play it. I don't like to video a game unless I can show it running properly.Usually I do main screen/menu then gameplay and game over footage. I have a demo of magnetoids and warlock which I had forgotton about. I reckon I have at least another 30 to 40 games to video. So many games that I have to box them within other games just to save space!

[nOmArch]

Did they release the Flight Trainer as a boxed edition or are you talking about the full game?

[vanpeebles]

Just flight trainer, I'm not sure if the full game was ever released?

[sirbod]

Karma - The full game was never released, due to the death of one of the developers.

Vanpeebles - you should consider contributing to the preservation project if you have lots of boxed games. There are three collectors contributing at the moment, slowly working their way through their collections, but I'm sure they'll get burn out soon - it's mind numbingly boring scanning and imaging games! To make life easier, I do all the image cropping/cleaning and PDF'ing of manuals.

In return, you get a copy of the digital master so you won't need to worry about losing games through bitrot

[nOmArch]

Karma - The full game was never released, due to the death of one of the developers.

That's what I thought, just never heard of a boxed version of the trainer.

[vanpeebles]

Karma - The full game was never released, due to the death of one of the developers.

Vanpeebles - you should consider contributing to the preservation project if you have lots of boxed games. There are three collectors contributing at the moment, slowly working their way through their collections, but I'm sure they'll get burn out soon - it's mind numbingly boring scanning and imaging games! To make life easier, I do all the image cropping/cleaning and PDF'ing of manuals.

In return, you get a copy of the digital master so you won't need to worry about losing games through bitrot

I'll think about it I've been pondering selling up a lot of the 32 bit stuff as it never gets used now.

[sirbod]

I'll think about it I've been pondering selling up a lot of the 32 bit stuff as it never gets used now.

Drop me an eMail if you are serious about selling: jon at jaspp dot org dot uk

That's what I thought, just never heard of a boxed version of the trainer.

It was a very good box, lots in it, a decent manual - it put a lot of games to shame. I've been scanning it on and off for several weeks - its going to take a while!

...a pity it was never completed, it had some very neat concepts.

[davidb]

Just so you know, there's a PDF of the manual available online.

[sirbod]

Just so you know, there's a PDF of the manual available online.

I do have that manual, unfortunately it's not usable for the project as its not an exact reproduction.

The manuals included in the game sets are all 100% identical to the original manuals / instructions. ie the same font, layout and page size. It's a heck of a lot of work on my part, but with the current number of weekly submissions, I'm just about staying on top of them.

[dmitrysimlyansky]

I like Speedball 2 on Acorn Archimedes. I have original box with floppies. I play this game with joypads. I play in all my games with the joypads, but if these games runs from Risc OS only. Everything works fine!

Twinworld for Acorn is really amazing! In one line with Amiga version! I love night stars on the background of this game! So good atmosphere.

Amiga have very good games in Thrust style - The Executioners and Zarathrusta! Both games have nice graphics and physics! These titles takes something from Exile influence too.

Atari ST have nice tunes in The Seven Gates Of Jambala game! Amiga version don't have these sound effects in compositions. But both versions are good. Thalion Software made TOP games for these systems from 1989 to 1993 years.

[wmd]

Two that I distinctly remember being better on the Archimedes are Tower of Babel and Pipe Mania.

Tower of Babel:

Amiga: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MmHO4udMD7s
Archimedes: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FWe6wrgZ5V8

I think the Archimedes version runs a bit smoother, is higher res and has a nicer interface.

Pipe Mania:

Amiga: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wUCKC_-8rnM
Archimedes: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Is6ejcghdX0

Again, just all-round much nicer on the Archimedes, more colours, higher res etc. Having played most versions of Pipe Mania, under it's various names across numerous platforms, I'd class the Archimedes version as the best version ever made.

I was also going to list Gribbly's Day Out on the Arc, but to my surprise, after a bit of research, this never saw an ST or Amiga version. Weird, I'd always assumed it was an Amiga port.

[stuslayer]

Just looked at this thread. Speedball II definitely has joystick support - I thrashed this game on my A3010 back in 1993!! It also works with joypad on the Raspberry Pi under ADFFS, as per the RISC OS Direct build on a 3B.

Populous was an immense game that I spent absolute hours on, as far as I'm aware it was pretty much identical to the Amiga version.

Cannon Fodder was another port that I spent a fair few hours with and was a lot of fun.