A3010 serial file transfer

[segasonic]

Hi all. I'm after some advice on a suitable cable and software to move files between an A3010 ROS 3.10 and Windows 11 PC.

Can anyone recommend a cable that works? I'm guessing it'll be a female 9-pin to USB but I understand that not all of the cables are properly RS232 compatible. One that will work on Amiga as well with a suitable adaptor would be a bonus but not essential.

For software I have Connector on the Archie, is that the best option? I've got PuTTY installed on my PC for Raspberry Pi tinkering but I don't know if it's suitable for this.

ZIP drives are another option but I'd rather not have more rarely-used hardware on the pile. I can use floppies for now but a hard drive backup won't be much fun at 1.4MB a time.

I hear that serial is a bit on the slow side, but I don't mind as long as it's reliable. I just don't want to get a cable that won't work then spend many frustrating hours trying to achieve the impossible

Thanks in advance!

[acorn_fan]

With my A3000/A5000 I use Connector and then Tera Term on the Win 11 PC. Very reliable but as you say very slow. ZMODEM works for me - only thing I find I need to check is that all the settings on both machines remain matched.

Edit: see https://www.stardot.org.uk/forums/viewt ... 90#p320690 for more on this topic.

[segasonic]

With my A3000/A5000 I use Connector and then Tera Term on the Win 11 PC. Very reliable but as you say very slow. ZMODEM works for me - only thing I find I need to check is that all the settings on both machines remain matched.

Edit: see https://www.stardot.org.uk/forums/viewt ... 90#p320690 for more on this topic.

Thank you, that's very useful! I hadn't considered a PCIe serial card so that's another option if I can't find a USB one that will work.

[segasonic]

I found on the forum that a Startech ICUSB232SM3 should work and they're fairly cheap on Amazon.

Would I plug that directly into the A3010 (with a gender convertor), or would I use a null modem cable to connect the computer to the 9 pin end of the Startech cable?

I think it might be the latter, as the cable says it converts a USB port to an RS232 serial port. It would make sense that the crossover cable goes in between.

[nicf82]

I have been using one of these

https://www.aliexpress.us/item/32568042 ... 4itemAdapt

I ordered the one with a null modem pin out but I’m sure a 9pin converter would work as well!

[segasonic]

I have been using one of these

https://www.aliexpress.us/item/32568042 ... 4itemAdapt

I ordered the one with a null modem pin out but I’m sure a 9pin converter would work as well!

Good to know there's another one that works! I ordered the Startech one and a female to female 9 pin null modem cable. They should arrive today, I'll report back later.

[segasonic]

Got the cables, it doesn't exactly work as I get loads of errors but the Archie and PC are definitely aware of each other. I have no idea what I'm doing though so it's probably fine and PEBKAC.

When I next get some spare time I'll look into configuring the machines properly and working out how to apply the serial fix for ROS 3.10 and add SerialBuffer. A promising start in any case!

Edit: After some quick config with the recommended settings I managed to send the ZIDEFS guide from Archie to PC and open it in Notepad++ to confirm it transferred properly. Brilliant, can't wait to play with it some more.

[nicf82]

I was using !Connector with zmodem. I did it by telnet to a linux file server and then just called sz. I do remember I needed the -e (escape) flag doing it this way.

[segasonic]

I couldn't find the flow control setting in !Connector at first, things improved once I'd sussed that out. I can go into chat mode and what I type at one end appears at the other.

This is all new to me, in the 80s I never needed to transfer anything that required more than a couple of floppies. Didn't have anything as exotic as a hard drive!

I think it's working now bar a bit of fine tuning. Shame I have work tomorrow, this is much more fun. Thank you both for your help!

[sp4nno]

My A3010 has (very slow) LAN and internet access via a PPP / serial connection to a Raspberry Pi. I use that to transfer files over NFS. This is the cable I use for that: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B075YHFMC7?ps ... ct_details.

[segasonic]

My A3010 has (very slow) LAN and internet access via a PPP / serial connection to a Raspberry Pi. I use that to transfer files over NFS. This is the cable I use for that: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B075YHFMC7?ps ... ct_details.

That sounds like a good way of doing it. Does it connect through the GPIO header? Running RISC OS on a Pi that can talk to an Archie has obvious benefits. I could set one up on a Pi Zero to have a tiny box for transfers rather than having to have my PC running (and breaking the filetypes!)

[segasonic]

Obviously it doesn't go on the GPIO pins, as the Pi has USB. Sorry, Monday morning and I haven't had nearly enough coffee yet.

[sp4nno]

In my setup the Pi is running Linux (the USB side of that cable needs a driver, which Linux provides out of the box).

[segasonic]

Had a bit of time to play with it this evening. It seems to work reliably at 4800 baud but if I set it to 19200 and transfer a file to Archie I quicky get 'Data subpacket too long' followed by CRC errors.

I've got SerialDev and SerialUtil in System:Modules and 'RMLoad System:Modules.SerialUtil' in my desktop boot script. SerialDev seems to load itself.

I have David Pillings' SerialBuffer 1.03 but I don't know what to do with it. The instructions are 'As usual, the buffer should be RMLoaded in the !Run file of your comms program.' which is probably elementary stuff if you're used to RISC OS.

I tried putting SerialBuff in System:Modules and adding 'RMLoad System:Modules.SerialBuff' in !Connector's !Run file but that just caused an OS error when I run the app.

It's clearly user error as it works fine at 4800, 3 hours for a megabyte is maybe a little too slow though

How do I set up the buffer correctly, assuming that's the problem?

[nicf82]

I am not sure about SerialBuffer, but I have been running my transfers successfully at 9600 baud which is still pretty slow I know!

[segasonic]

Just trying 9600. That seems to work ok too, and it's noticeably faster.

[nicf82]

If you are interested in connecting to BBS etc check out Zimodem which is a great firmware for the ESP8266, it emulates a Hayes modem but allows you to assign telephone numbers to servers. You need to use a MAX232 to convert the serial to TTL however.

[segasonic]

I've seen something like that for the C64, it's cool that there are still BBS running in this day and age.

[nicf82]

Yeah not a huge amount of activity on them though unfortunately!

[Andy1979]

I'm not an expert on this, but do you have any form of 'handshaking' enabled? That might help with the errors at higher speeds. 19200 should work.

Serial ports on Acorn 32 bit machines can be a bit of a nightmare as to which pins do the handshaking (in PC world it's RTS/CTS), but the A3010 has a 'PC compatible' serial port, it just needs to be configured as such.

A lot of the 'modern' USB serial stuff only has 3 wires RX/TX and GND and that can cause problems with older hardware if it can't quite keep up 100% of the time.

I've messed about with the ESP8266 modems, including a PPP firmware that got my A3010 on the web, not that it could do anything useful when connected that way. Raspberry Pi is an easier way of doing it, just feels slightly wrong using a machine that can run RiscOS natively as a very slow network adapter.

I've been trying and failing to build this firmware for the ESP32 - as the project is now 6yrs old all the libraries are several generations newer which causes errors I don't have the skills to fix - I should probably just ask the author to share a binary https://apple-crapple.blogspot.com/2018 ... d-and.html

[segasonic]

I'll check for handshaking after work, thanks for the tip. I was reading up earlier so I understand some of the terminology now, in theory if not in practice.

These are the cables I've got:

StarTech.com 1 Port USB to Serial RS232 Adapter - Prolific PL-2303 - USB to DB9 Serial Adapter Cable - RS232 Serial Converter (ICUSB232V2)

StarTech.com 2m Black DB9 RS232 Serial Null Modem Cable F/F - DB9 Female to Female - 9 pin RS232 Null Modem Cable - 2 meter, Black (SCNM9FF2MBK)

[Andy1979]

I'll check for handshaking after work, thanks for the tip. I was reading up earlier so I understand some of the terminology now, in theory if not in practice.

These are the cables I've got:

StarTech.com 1 Port USB to Serial RS232 Adapter - Prolific PL-2303 - USB to DB9 Serial Adapter Cable - RS232 Serial Converter (ICUSB232V2)

StarTech.com 2m Black DB9 RS232 Serial Null Modem Cable F/F - DB9 Female to Female - 9 pin RS232 Null Modem Cable - 2 meter, Black (SCNM9FF2MBK)

Ought to work, and Startech stuff is normally fairly reliable, but you'll need to check the software settings on each machine to ensure handshaking is enabled and that the A3010 serial port is is 'PC mode', which I think involves having the latest 'serial blockdrivers' loaded. I've not done much serial interfacing with Arcs though - only my Acorn Pocketbook back in the day.

[segasonic]

I can't see anything relating to handshaking at either end (!Connector and Tera Term) and I'm using the settings that acorn_fan suggested above on both. I can set the block driver to Internal or InternalPC on the A3010, I've seen conflicting reports on which to use but it doesn't seem to make a difference anyway.
I've read a lot of Internet and still none the wiser on how to correctly install the 3.11 serial modules and the serial buffer. I'll work it out eventually!

It's not a major issue anyway, I'm happy to have got it working at all. It's fine at 9600 baud and I really appreciate all the advice I've received. I'll tinker with it some more after work tomorrow

[Andy1979]

The setting is also called 'Flow Control'. I checked the linked thread and it recommends 'XON/XOFF' which is software flow control. If there's a setting for 'RTS/CTS' that's hardware flow control and might help get you to 19200. InternalPC setting should mean things are symmetrical at the PC and A3010 end of things.

[segasonic]

Thank you, I realised that flow control is the handshaking upon doing more reading last night. Yeah, I've got it set to XON/XOFF - I think the other setting was 'Hardware'. I'll try that later. It seems that doing it in software might hog a bit of bandwidth. I left the blockdriver on InternalPC.

At 19200 I could send from Archie to PC without any errors, it didn't seem to be going full whack though.
At 9600 sending from PC to Archie, I could see the PC waiting for the Archie to catch up every now and then which I guess is flow control working.

[nicf82]

I don't think that hardware flow control will work with the RS232/TTL converter that you have got. RS232 has the extra pins RTS/CTS needed for hardware flow control but USB serial only has TXD/RXD.

[segasonic]

I think you are right, I can try it for nowt though. At least I have a means to get data to and fro even if it is a little slow.

On the Amiga I just pull the hard drive and mount it in WinUAE then copy anything I want. Apparently I might be able to do something similar with Linux or a Pi running RISC OS and an IDE to USB interface, but it being a partitioned ZIDEFS drive might cause complications.
That's fun for another time I think

[segasonic]

I might be in luck. The cable has the Prolific PL2303GT chipset, which according to the datasheet provides 'Full UART RS232 interface pins (TXD, RXD,
RTS, CTS, DTR, DSR, DCD, and RI)'.

Startech say 'For the ICUSB232V2 Pin 7 and Pin 8 is RTS and CTS respectively.'

Now I just need work to be done for the day so I can conduct some experiments.

[nicf82]

Oh right wow that is more advanced then the ones I have then I think!

[BigEd]

Might be worth noting that in many previous explorations, FTDI-chip-based USB adapters have been found to be better in handshaking than Prolific-based ones. Have a search, but see for example here.