Archimedes Elite - Unreachable planets

[Sniffer]

Anybody still playing Elite on the Archimedes? Way back when I first played Elite on the Archimedes series, I came across two unreachable planets (Atlaar & Ditere) on the third system (Lara'tan). They were out of fuel range. Anybody else come across this?

Not being able to 'visit' every planet was a bit of a let down and I never played the game much after that I know, I'm weird like that

Just in case it was something I did wrong back in the day I've just played it again (not Sam) on Arculator and it's the same as it was on real hardware. Not surprising really.

Anybody any idea how the planets/systems are generated? Is the Archimedes source available? Maybe I could tweak something to gain access to the two unreachables! Are there more unreachables?

[bob147]

There is an exploit you can use to get to unreachable planets using the galactic hyperdrive, see here

viewtopic.php?p=368912#p368912

Whether that was the author's intent is another matter! Saves you having to hack the game at least

[Sophira]

The unreachable planets actually exist in all Elite versions, I believe, not just Archimedes Elite. It's a consequence of the way the entire galaxy is actually procedurally generated (but in such a way that it's the same every time you play it).

Tweaking this would very likely change all the other planets as well, and in any case I don't believe the source for ArcElite is available. However, as ArcElite internally emulates a 6502 to run the galaxy generation code from the BBC Elite version, you can see how it works in Mark Moxon's "Galaxy and system seeds" deep dive from his BBC Elite disassembly project and the linked pages from there!

[Sniffer]

There is an exploit you can use to get to unreachable planets using the galactic hyperdrive, see here

viewtopic.php?p=368912#p368912

Whether that was the author's intent is another matter! Saves you having to hack the game at least

I'm talking about the Archimedes version. Isn't your link referring to the 8bit versions?

[Sniffer]

The unreachable planets actually exist in all Elite versions, I believe, not just Archimedes Elite. It's a consequence of the way the entire galaxy is actually procedurally generated (but in such a way that it's the same every time you play it).

Tweaking this would very likely change all the other planets as well, and in any case I don't believe the source for ArcElite is available. However, as ArcElite internally emulates a 6502 to run the galaxy generation code from the BBC Elite version, you can see how it works in Mark Moxon's "Galaxy and system seeds" deep dive from his BBC Elite disassembly project and the linked pages from there!

To be clear (just in case I used the wrong description), I'm talking about the 'Hybrid' release for the Archimedes A3000 & A5000. I'm not sure that 6502 emulation is actually used. See viewtopic.php?p=385827#p385827

[bob147]

That specific post in the thread mentions an exploit that works in arcelite but not the 8 bit versions, but yeah, the majority of it is about 8 bit. Should add I haven't actually tested it!

[Sniffer]

One important note that I forgot to mention is that the two unreachable planets are together, out on a limb so to speak.

There should be 256 planets per system should there not? On Lara'tan there are only 255. So maybe the code just does not plot all the planets and the missing one should be between 'Ordiesat' and Ditere.

'Ordiesat' is at the centre of the large blue circle (current planet, 'Ditere' is ringed by the small orange circle and 'Atlaar' is above that in the image below;

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/i94o106b ... eppb8&dl=0

[fellipnectar]

There are no unreachable systems in ArcElite, as there's always somewhere you can use a Galactic Hyperdrive from in the previous galaxy to reach them.

However, there is a solitary isolated system in galaxy 8 called Oresrati which you only can reach via Galactic Hyperdrive from Rainza in galaxy 7. Not only there are no other systems within 7 light years, but the space station doesn't have Galactic Hyperdrives as it's tech level is too low. In effect you are trapped there permanently!

[Sniffer]

There are no unreachable systems in ArcElite, as there's always somewhere you can use a Galactic Hyperdrive from in the previous galaxy to reach them.

How? I mean how, in this version of Elite, does one _select_ a planet in one system whilst _existing_ in a different system?

However, there is a solitary isolated system in galaxy 8 called Oresrati which you only can reach via Galactic Hyperdrive from Rainza in galaxy 7. Not only there are no other systems within 7 light years, but the space station doesn't have Galactic Hyperdrives as it's tech level is too low. In effect you are trapped there permanently!

I stopped at the end of this third System when I couldn't reach the final two planets.

[fellipnectar]

There are no unreachable systems in ArcElite, as there's always somewhere you can use a Galactic Hyperdrive from in the previous galaxy to reach them.
How? I mean how, in this version of Elite, does one _select_ a planet in one system whilst _existing_ in a different system?

There's no direct way to select your destination in-game. The galactic hyperspace destination is determined by the internal ID of your current system.

In galaxy 7, system #162 is Rainza and if you galactic hyperspace from there you land at system #162 in galaxy 8, which is Oresrati.

Be aware that the game itself doesn't actually tell you the internal ID of each system, but it has been documented here:-

https://wiki.alioth.net/index.php/Class ... scriptions

So to reach Atlaar (#206 in galaxy 3), you must galactic hyperspace from Edtixeen (#206 in galaxy 2).

[bob147]

This is why I described it as somewhat of an exploit. You need that prior knowledge to game the system and end up where you want.

[Sniffer]

There's no direct way to select your destination in-game. The galactic hyperspace destination is determined by the internal ID of your current system.

In galaxy 7, system #162 is Rainza and if you galactic hyperspace from there you land at system #162 in galaxy 8, which is Oresrati.

Be aware that the game itself doesn't actually tell you the internal ID of each system, but it has been documented here:-

https://wiki.alioth.net/index.php/Class ... scriptions

So to reach Atlaar (#206 in galaxy 3), you must galactic hyperspace from Edtixeen (#206 in galaxy 2).

Ah, I see. Well thanks for that. All these years and I never knew !

So, is there a way to reverse a Galactic jump, say from System 3 back to System 2?

[Sniffer]

This is why I described it as somewhat of an exploit. You need that prior knowledge to game the system and end up where you want.

I have to say, it smells like a bug to me, but touted as a feature!

[fellipnectar]

There's no direct way to select your destination in-game. The galactic hyperspace destination is determined by the internal ID of your current system.

In galaxy 7, system #162 is Rainza and if you galactic hyperspace from there you land at system #162 in galaxy 8, which is Oresrati.

Be aware that the game itself doesn't actually tell you the internal ID of each system, but it has been documented here:-

https://wiki.alioth.net/index.php/Class ... scriptions

So to reach Atlaar (#206 in galaxy 3), you must galactic hyperspace from Edtixeen (#206 in galaxy 2).

Ah, I see. Well thanks for that. All these years and I never knew !

So, is there a way to reverse a Galactic jump, say from System 3 back to System 2?

You can only go forwards with the Galactic Hyperdrive. You do loop back to galaxy 1 from galaxy 8, though.

[Sniffer]

You can only go forwards with the Galactic Hyperdrive. You do loop back to galaxy 1 from galaxy 8, though.

Just a short hop back to Edtixeen from Atlaar then.

It does though effectively mean there are unreachable planets. Whilst all planets can be accessed using GH, to actually visit all planets, you have to loop through all eight of the systems at least twice and maybe more if there are other planets outside of the 7.0 light year perimeter.

Great game all the same.

Edited to ask, why Lara'tan is missing a planet on my system? Must have a quick search to see which one is missing.

Edited again. Found the missing planet. Maracece. It sits coincidentally with Raried and is visually indistinguishable from it on my monitor.

[fellipnectar]

It does though effectively mean there are unreachable planets. Whilst all planets can be accessed using GH, to actually visit all planets, you have to loop through all eight of the systems at least twice and maybe more if there are other planets outside of the 7.0 light year perimeter.

Or you simply don't save while you are in an isolated pocket, then crash your ship to return to the previous galaxy with your GH intact.