Greaseweazle V4 assistance required

[SimonSideburns]

Ages back I bought a Greaseweazle V4 device.

It took me until last week to finally decide to plug it in and attempt some IBM PC floppy imaging, but my first hurdle was to connect a 3.5" floppy drive to the device. I had a suitable flat ribbon cable to connect the two, but I searched and didn't find a suitable double-ended 4-pin power connector.

When Maplin closed down I ended buying some of their component storage racks, containing a bunch of mostly useless crap that clearly was scraping the bottom of the barrel of stuff that had been stored for some time but never (or barely ever) sold. In this Maplin stash I found two 4-way plugs that would fit, but then I couldn't find the metal inserts that are used to crimp onto the ends of the wires used to carry the power to the drive (I know that 3.5" drives don't use 12v so it was really only Gnd and +5v required), so this ended up a dead-end.

Then I thought about old PC PSUs. I had one in a basket, so I fished it out. To my delight, the supply had two of the 4-pin plugs attached. I checked them for continuity and they passed that test, so I wondered what would happen if I connected the two plugs, one on the back of the floppy drive and one on the Greaseweazle. To my surprise, it worked. The PSU was not plugged into the mains, but inside the PSU are some blue LEDs and a quite large fan, and imagine my surprise when the LEDs lit up and the fan started spinning.

Not being sure if this was safe, I decided that I ought to remove the PSU entirely and maybe consider cutting the leads a few inches along the wires and connect those via a couple of Wago connectors, or with a bit of Chocolate block, but now, I can't seem to be able to pull the plug off the pins on the Greaseweazle side. The plug in the back of the floppy came out fine. No idea why the other one is stuck fast.

So, my two questions are: firstly, is it fine to use this PSU to connect the Greaseweazle and the Drive as it is. Will sending 5v through the PSU cause it any damage, or will the mains pins on the PSU suddenly start being live with a weak 240v AC or anything. Secondly, is there a risk to pulling on the plug that I connected to the Greaseweazle, that I somehow damage it, I suppose, or the connector pulls out of the board? I don't want to damage it if I can help it. Why would it be so stuck on the pins? Would you suggest I pull it a little then try to gently lever it out with a fine screwdriver between the plug and the plastic at the end of the pins.

[SimonSideburns]

I finally gave the plug a larger than I thought possible tug, and it finally released its grip on the Greaseweazle.

That was on tight. I am going to repeat the exercise some more times to hopefully give the plug some memory and to make removal in the future easier, as that was the first time I think this plug has been used in earnest for some time (possible the first time it had been connected to anything), but I'm still not sure how safe the power supply is going to be with 5v being fed in through one of the normal outputs.

I must stress that I don't intend to plug the power supply into the mains. I am also sure, after giving it some thought, that there are diodes in the supply so I'm quite sure I won't measure anything from the mains-in socket of the supply with my trusty multimeter. I'll let you know if it does, somehow, produce a voltage there.

[Zakala]

I got one a couple of months ago primarily for archiving Amiga data but I'm now looking to do the same with 5 1/4 inch Beeb disks. Which is a whole other kettle of fish as those do need 12V.

Anyway when I got it, I was sure I had loads of large molex to floppy power splitters, but could I find a any? No chance. So while your solution will work perfectly well, if you do want a smaller solution I've found that Amazon sell the aforementioned splitter for a shade under £2, though I guess there's postage to factor in if you don't have Prime.

Also should you need to power a big spinner as I will eventually need to, I believe there is a link you can remove on the greaseweazle to power it from the floppy connector of a powered PSU.

[SimonSideburns]

I will be using it to archive 5.25" floppies too, at some point. I not only have DS/DD BBC formatted floppies, but also a disk box full of 5.25" floppies for the IBM PC, although I currently don't have a drive for the PC. I used to own one, but when I tidied a lot of 'nerdy stuff' as my wife calls it, I didn't find it.

I also have Archimedes disks and Atari disks to image at some point. I will still keep the floppies, probably, but an archive of the contents of the disks stored digitally, and probably backed up several times, will hopefully see them well into the future, as the actual magnetic media deteriorates.

[flaxcottage]

The Greaseweazle set up used at the Archive has a USB connection to the PC. This powers the Greaseweazle.

The drives I use are self-powered. The 34-way drive cable plugs into the Greaseweazle and it works.

Drives that are not self-powered will need a suitable PSU to provide +5v or +5v and +12v. Luckily I have an old, external BBC drive PSU that can power up to 4 devices with the power cables that fit a BBC micro. Alternate PSUs for disc drives could include an ex-PC PSU as that provides the correct voltages, a Meanwell PT-65A with the correct power leads for the drives. For a 3.5" drive even a 5v 1A phone charger would do; just cut off the micro USB plug, fit the red and black wires to the 3.5" floppy power lead and it will work.

[julians]

I use an old Sun external half height tape drive enclosure (with the top off and the SCSI connectors / ID selector removed) so I can fit a 3.5" drive on top of a 5.25" drive, the USB powered GreaseWeazle in a small project box and the cable folded / tucked behind the 5.25" drive, all stuck to each other using some sticky back Velcro.
The PSU is enclosed so feels quite safe and it doesn't look anywhere near as bad as it sounds...

Julian.

[SimonSideburns]

The Greaseweazle set up used at the Archive has a USB connection to the PC. This powers the Greaseweazle.

Interesting. I never even considered that a 3.5" floppy could work without the power lead connected. I'll have to try that at some point.

[flaxcottage]

The USB powers the Greaseweazle. The 3.5" drive needs a separate 5v PSU. Maybe a second USB lead from another USB socket could do it?

[julians]

Interesting. I never even considered that a 3.5" floppy could work without the power lead connected. I'll have to try that at some point.

You can power a 3.5" drive from the Greaseweazle - never tried it though as my primary use case is 5.25" and it does read as if it might, or might not work.
Worth a try and neater than powering it separately, if it works for you.

From https://github.com/keirf/Greaseweazle/w ... oppy-power

Floppy power
3.5-inch drives typically require only 5v power and can usually be supplied directly from the power header on the Greaseweazle board. Older 5.25- and 3-inch drives typically are more power hungry and require 12v power too: These you must connect to a separate power source.

If you have problems accessing your drive and you believe your Greaseweazle is correctly set up, it can be because the drive requires more power than it can obtain via USB. In this case try connecting your drive to its own power supply.

For a suitable drive power supply for 3.5- and 5.25-inch drives, search for "Molex power supply". These usually feature 5V and 12V supply at 2A, and a full-size Molex power connector; They connect directly to a 5.25" drive, or to a 3.5" drive via a Molex-to-floppy adapter cable.

[Mince]

Ive got a couple of external drives I put in mains powered enclosures - I got the enclosures off eBay by keeping an eye out for BBC drives that people were selling known not working, so were fairly cheap.

[SimonSideburns]

I think some of you may have misread my original post.

I am powering my 3.5" drive from the Greaseweazle. In order to get the power from the connector to the drive, I plugged in an old PC PSU. It is not powered. I have not plugged the PSU into the mains.

The power from the Greaseweazle is transferring through the PSU in such a way that the fan inside the PSU spins and LEDs attached to it are lighting up.

I was concerned that somehow there might be a possibility of this causing damage to something, hence my query.

This is from the Greaseweazle V4 setup instructions on github:

3.5-inch drives typically require only 5v power and can usually be supplied directly from the power header on the Greaseweazle board. Older 5.25- and 3-inch drives typically are more power hungry and require 12v power too: These you must connect to a separate power source.

Edit: It seems I also misread what John at Flaxcottage wrote about his self-powered drives. I get what he is saying now. My thoughts must have been elsewhere. His Greaseweazle is powered through the USB connection into the PC, as is mine. His drives have their own PSU, so he only needs the ribbon cable connected. I am providing power to the 3.5" drive via the power header on the Greaseweazle.

[flaxcottage]

Ah. Not something I would advise. The power drain may be too great. A dedicated lead would be the best answer and avoid the PSU.

However, not using the Greaseweazle to power the 3.5" FDD and using the PSU instead would be OK.

[SimonSideburns]

I did plug the Greaseweazle into a USB 3 port (blue inner plastic) on my PC, so it should be fine. I've had no issues thus far, except maybe the odd disk which upon closer inspection has a nice groove dug into the recording surface by a previous use, which surprisingly doesn't read any data at those 'blank' parts of the plastic substrate.

I'm not too concerned at the moment that I'm losing anything particularly rare or valuable though. And, I'm also making sure to clean the drive heads every so often, especially after any screechy disks have passed through.

[flaxcottage]

Aah! Floppy discs with mangled tracks! What a nightmare.

[SimonSideburns]

Aah! Floppy discs with mangled tracks! What a nightmare.

They don't even make great frisbees either. Maybe their only use is for propping up wonky tables.