What happens to your collection when you pass?

[SimonSideburns]

I know the subject line is a bit depressing, but before I ask, I must share my reason for the topic.

When I first got my own BBC Model B back in the early 1990s, I knew a guy called Dave Ian Patrick Watson. I met him while I was on my 2 year YTS scheme at Marconi Defence Systems and found out he was into electronics, computing, etc.

He lived not too far away from me, and when I got my first Beeb he offered me a selection of discs. Games, utilities, demos, music, etc. that he had amassed over the years. He copied them all and set me on my way into using my machine. I also wrote a password protection ROM (he leant me a book that showed what you needed to do to write ROMs), and I used that to guide me into my own programming. It was a very simple and basic affair, using Mode 7, and it would ask for a code word and pass number. These were stored in the ROM. I went to his home as he had a EPROM programmer, which we used to write my ROM. Any time the password or code number needed to be updated, a new ROM would be compiled, and would need to be re-programmed. A lot of the games he had on disk had been cracked to remove copy protection, and he changed the loading screen and added "CRACKED BY DIP"

Anyway, over the years I moved away to Southampton for a while, then to Birmingham area, and when I came back to Hampshire he still lived in his old home, as whenever I drove past I saw the same multicoloured blinds in the windows. One time I stopped and knocked his door, to see how he was, and, although I wasn't invited in, we stood at the door for 20 minutes catching up.

Now, his parents had lived at the bungalow with him, and when they died he inherited the property, so I wasn't too sure if there were other family around. He never seemed to marry, and while I thought he had a brother, I didn't know of any other brothers or sisters.

At some point in the last 6 months, I drove past and the familiar blinds had gone, and a large tree or two that had been in the front garden for some time had been removed, and there were obvious signs of the property either being renovated or updated, but I didn't manage to stop at that time and enquire. I did a search online to see if I could find any information and while I could see that the property was sold in around September 2023, I had no idea what happened to Dave. He may have gone into a home, died, etc. etc., but I didn't find anything.

I finally managed to stop by in the last week on the way to somewhere else and parked nearby and knocked the door. I was greeted by the new owner, so, after apologising profusely, I gave a small bit of my history with the previous owner, and enquired if they had any idea what had happened to him.

It transpires that he died last year some time, and it was asbestosis from working around the material somewhere in his earlier life. It's a shame. I didn't get any chance to go back to see how he was since my earlier visit.

Most of his vast collection, gathered from many years of working in and around the electronics industry was collected from his home by siblings, (no idea what happened to any of it), and whatever was left was skipped by the new owners as they started renovating the property after it had been untouched for probably over 30 years.

All of this got me wondering what will happen to my collection of stuff when I go. If I die before my wife she'd probably invite stardot members to come along and take whatever they want. If she dies before I do, as I don't currently have a will, I'm guessing whoever ends up owning our home after us would likely chuck everything into a skip. We don't have children, and although we've talked about it, we can't decide who the home should be left to.

So, if you have thought about this already, what provisions do you have in place for your collections? Have you got your wishes in your will already? Do others know what you wish to do if, like me, your possessions wouldn't automatically be inherited by anyone, or by someone that wouldn't know what to do with it.

I now think back to at least 30 years worth of stuff, in my friend's case, that could simply have ended up in the skip, the household waste recycling centre, or maybe, if the other family members thought about it, the collection may have appeared on selling sites.

Anyway, it makes you think, doesn't it.

[Anobium]

A great question.

I have already left very clear instructions on what should happen.

As an Open Source Developer there are finances, many physical assets and digital assets ( including licenses and credentials ) that need to be handed over.

To make this easy for my family, specifically my wife, I update the finance side monthly and update the overall instructions into a shared Microsoft share. This is updated as I progress but I send recipients an email every year.

It is actually not hard to maintain, I just started the list and then added to it.

In the third year now... and, I am still alive.

[BigEd]

Leaving clear instructions seems like a good plan, whether in the will or with other directions (about finances, for example, or about notifying online communities, or about what to do with your pets.) The main thing being to make it clear that the collection of old stuff has value - at least emotional and nostalgia value, possibly cash value - and perhaps some pointers to how to reach people who can buy it or look after it.

I wonder how many of us have an up to date will at all though... mine is quite out of date although probably serviceable.

(Crossed in the post: good point about projects with licenses, and credentials for repositories or services)

[BeebMaster]

Yes, I have thought about this quite a lot over the last two or three years and I am still at a loss as to what to do. I have no will and no dependents. If I don't do anything about it and I live long enough there's a strong possibility that my whole estate will go to the Crown. Not that I would mind that in the least of course, as long as it really did go to the Crown and not to the temporary shabby occupants of No.10.

And on a related note, thinking about some of the more important news stories of the year, I've also been thinking I am at the age now where it's about time I had all my below parts checked out before they start to mutate and kill me, like they did to my dad. Earlier in the year I promised myself that I would get myself to the doctor when I moved. Been here 4 weeks tomorrow and I haven't done that yet, although I have signed up with a new GP.

All too many times we have heard of hobbyists - either in our own general community or completely separate - having all their collections amassed over decades just thrown away because the people left behind didn't understand the significance of any of it.

I have spoken to several lawyers (I know a few) about the shape of my will and my last wishes but I don't think any of them have appreciated how complex and technical it all might need to be. For the majority of people it's a question of disposing of the financial assets to a couple of beneficiaries and maybe one or two specific gifts of largely sentimental value and any high street lawyer should be able to do a decent job of that sort of will. But for us, we have that, plus the hardware collections, physical software, digital software and data, presence online, intellectual property, all the documentation and research and development we have done over the years. How do you cater for all that in a will?

I haven't even got as far as deciding who I want to leave the majority of my estate to.

I think when I am dead I would like my website to remain online, perhaps frozen as at the last update, and then with all the unpublished picture sets made available separately, as-is. But there will be a cost to keeping the website online, so it has to be funded. Then you are getting into needing trustees to manage a fund of money to pay for keeping things online, so immediately it becomes fairly complex.

As for my collection, who knows? I don't think I would want to insist on everything being kept together. One silly idea I have had over the years is to want everything put into an auction by Christie's or Sotheby's; watching from up there (or down there) as a crusty old auctioneer says "Lot 682...what I am bid for this...this...original corroded 1986 battery pack from Master 128..." would give me great amusement.

On a purely practical point, how do I make sure my computer can be accessed when I am gone if I'm not supposed to write the password down?

Even funeral wishes, I don't really know. I alternate between wanting and expecting people to self-flagellate in the street upon the news of my demise to thinking just being burnt and being sent back as a cardboard box of dust without any ceremony is enough for me.

Anyway, as I've stated on here several times, I am living to 103 as I want to know what happens in 2080 when RISC OS or the L4 file server runs out of dates, and I am nowhere near (well, not that near) being half way there yet, so there's no need to do anything yet, is there? Though that line of thinking is half the problem of course...

[Diminished]

I will be dead and therefore will no longer care.

Embrace the existentialism.

[thecellartroll]

I guess (and I’m guilty of not doing it) we should all label our systems and then maintain a catalogue of what it all is. So our loved ones can bung it on eBay if nothing else. At least it won’t get skipped.

If I go before my brother he will know what it all is, and would help my wife sort it all. Or he could just assimilate it I guess.

I’m actually more concerned about what would happen to my photo collection. I have thousands! And probably no-one would want them. One day I’ll break my leg and have to spend a while in bed. Then I’ll label it all and put it on Wikimedia just in case someone can make use of them. Mind you, I didn’t do it when I broke my hip and it has expanded since then. Bah.

Depressing topic but interesting.

[1024MAK]

But for us, we have that, plus the hardware collections, physical software, digital software and data, presence online, intellectual property, all the documentation and research and development we have done over the years. How do you cater for all that in a will?

That is best catered for in an appendix that you yourself write. The appendix does not need to list the beneficiaries. Just all the items and instructions/details.

Mark

[BigEd]

I think it can be even simpler than that: the will does two things. First, it says who gets ownership. Second, it appoints an executor to sort everything out. If you can think of an executor who you can trust to do the right thing, you don't need detailed instructions, only to outline your preferences. If there's someone who can take ownership of everything and eventually do the right thing with it, you don't need any kind of an inventory - it's just everything, or everything other than a few specific things which you have specific ideas about.

I would hope a good family solicitor could deal with things in a simple way. If there's some money in the estate and you're not anxious that it should all go to the cat's home, or the hospice, and if there's no-one you can name and trust, then the solicitor can also be the executor, and take their costs out of the estate, the remainder going to your chosen good cause (or even, any charity you can define loosely, or not even loosely - make it their problem.)

I know some people have the idea that museums are terrible custodians, but a museum is surely better than nothing. Or, in my view, any of the mods here would be trustworthy and sensible. They don't even have to agree to become your sole beneficiary! So you could even pick someone you would like to lumber...

(I wouldn't recommend having no will - money will be spent trying to find long-lost relatives, or proving they can't be found. Even a vague will is better than that. I think the key is trust - let someone else use their discretion.)

[daveejhitchins]

Ah! I've been thinking about this issue for a while now

I have a white-board in the workshop with Dave Moore's 'phone number on (sorry Dave ) and Mrs. H. has instructions to ring him . . .

I have decided that reaching a certain age (TBD - maybe another 5 years at 80 ) I'll start disposing of items and arranging for someone to, hopefully, continue to make them available

In fact, I'm already in the process of offloading things I don't use but I'm finding it difficult

Dave H.

[a1exh]

My sister is my executor has made it very clear she doesn't intend to spend hours and hours "sorting through my crap" to get the best price for my son. Anything not documented with pictures, estimated price, in it's own labelled box "goes in the skip".

Very harsh but I can understand. Similar thing happened to my parents house when they passed, particularly their antiques that no-one wanted. We phoned the local antiques dealers and house clearance companies to be told they either didn't want it or would charge us to take it.

So last year I went through everything taking photos, writing a description, including where it was in the house (you wouldn't believe me if I explained) with an estimated price. I now have a "collection folder" with everything catalogued. This is not only good for "after" but also for insurance purposes. I mean which insurer is going to believe I have approx £100k worth of classic computers? Even if your contents policy is big enouth, would they pay out without proof? I don't know if you saw but "Mark Fixes Things" had a fire at his house which destroyed his collection (probably smaller than mine) and I can imagine that his insurance fight was a hard one.

I'm now going round putting all my computers into their own boxes (if they didn't have their own box). Anything disassembled (not being worked on) is being stored in a single smaller box rather than multiple computers in larger boxes.

I know some users donate their collections to "retro museums" but quite a few are not registered charities, donations are subject to taxation, they are not obliged to keep your donations and can sell them. Big minefield. Also retro computer museums are hoarders, they have tens of the same computer in storage. Each computer in a museum storehouse is a computer not being used, lowering the number available for sale and increasing their prices.

I'd like my collection sold (or partially sold) to the public so they will be recycled in the community and the proceeds go to my son's trust.

I put all this down in my will but whether the executor has to follow the will to the letter (without any renumeration) I'm not sure.

[fizgog]

I’ve informed my sons to either offer it on here, or sell it on eBay and also nothing would go into a skip

[james]

Dad had two minor collections of memorabilia, though one slightly larger and more niche the other. He’s sold them off so I don’t have the worry of dealing with them when he dies, so he tells me.

[jgharston]

I've got two specific provisions in my will after discussion with my solicitor ten years ago, one for my history/mapping research and one for my software stuff, and have appointed two executors, one of whom is a Beeb-y person so will understand what needs to be done. The intention is to make as much publically available as possible for as long as possible. Like other posters I also have thousands of photos which I don't want to be lost.

There is also an envelope in the legal packet with my will with the SYST password for the MDFS and the ADMIN password for the PC.

My endownment paid out some years ago (and all spent ), and my beneficiaries are all fully-fledged adults now, so I've been meaning to update my will for a bit now.

My existential terror is that everthing will just get skipped, I want to do everything I can to avoid that.

Edit: Another thought: what also terrifies me is people not understanding the difference between the mediocre hardware, and the extreme valuable DATA that's "in" the hardware. I don't care what happens to the PC or the Master, but IT'S THE STUFF ON THE DRIVES THAT'S IMPORTANT! I've just had a shudder of horror of my ghost watching all my disks just being dumped in a skip. Similarly, since around 2005 ALL MY PHOTOS only exist electronically. People like bailiffs can't understand the difference between a £100 PC and the unknown? millions? of pounds-worth of data "in" the PC. Stuff I've worked on since 1982. Stuff that's probably of zero value to anybody else, but is a third of a million hours of work and some sort of time machine to recreate.

[jgharston]

...hundreds of hours in libraries transcribing paper documentation into digital documentation... lost... like tears in the rain.

argh! I'm going to have to make a cup of tea and sit down now!

[BeebMaster]

This is the real worry, that someone gets there first and discards the lot before the wishes of the deceased are even considered. Thankfully there is no basis in reality for the preposterous situation in Agatha Christie and elsewhere, where the "reading of the will" takes place - and only takes place - once the deceased is well and truly six foot under, but even so even I have known family situations where the house has been cleared pretty quick-sharp, and arguments abound "well, she promised that to me", "Sorry, all had to go, the council insisted on having the flat back by the end of the week" etc.

And I think the other thing is that because death is one of the last remaining taboos, families often don't discuss their final wishes amongst themselves and it's not uncommon for the existence of the will, or otherwise, and the provisions in it, to come as something of a surprise to the nearest and dearest.

Good idea about having a separate envelope in the will packet with passwords etc. And, as others have said, perhaps with more detailed instructions for the technically minded than go in the actual will.

I don't even know who I would appoint as my executors; I can't think of a relative really who would be technically minded and interested enough to be able to do potentially what is required, same applies for a solicitor I think. There must be specialists though - what about famous people who have an enormous body of intellectual property which needs to be managed potentially forever? Pop singers and writers etc - I know for example almost every time Daleks are mentioned, it comes with the caveat - "Terry Nation's Estate aren't going to agree to this" etc. so it must all be possible.

Somebody in the community is probably a good choice, although as I think I am towards the younger end of the age spectrum on here, it would be a question of picking someone likely to outlive me (ie. beyond 2080).

The other factor in all this is how long we might care. In 20 years' time and beyond, will we still be using Beebs and still care about preservation of what we did so far?

[NickLuvsRetro]

I've left instructions mine all be collected in a giant acorn-shaped "wicker man" and set aflame.

[BeebMaster]

A bit destructive maybe, but undeniably unambiguous!

[flaxcottage]

Ah! I've been thinking about this issue for a while now

In fact, I'm already in the process of offloading things I don't use but I'm finding it difficult

Dave H.

Luckily my son is an executor and very conversant with Acorn stuff as he met it lots of times as he was growing up.

Nevertheless I have been downsizing my hoard and have relinquished easily 50%. Some has been sold, most given away to enthusiasts. When I eventually pop my clogs, so to speak, it will be easy to get rid of my mancave.

The Educational Archive, now, that is another matter. It has already been distributed to others who could easily resurrect it. As JGH says it is the 'content' that is valuable not necessarily the hardware. Some cheeky little oik (I am being polite here) has already ripped off the Computing Today collection and uploaded as their own to www,archive.org. At least that will survive though a credit of origin would have been nice.

[scruss]

I have some experience of what happens in the ham radio community when someone goes "silent key"*. Ham radio is a little different from computing as its purpose is to talk to people near and far, so there's a fair chance that there are a number of local(ish) hams who knew the person and might want their stuff. And some hams have a *lot* of stuff. Some of it's valuable, some of it's pretty, but there's a bunch that's junk and should probably be in the skip. Telling which is what can be hard.

If they were a morse key collector (which can involve serious money) the ones I've known made arrangements with friends and family to pass them on. Radios and other usable bits usually get resold at hamfests, which happen in various sizes and times. There's usually at least one table at every hamfest with a "Collection of VE3___ (SK)" card on it and a picture of the deceased, along with so much old stuff for sale.

SimonSideburns, sorry to hear of your loss. Send not for whom the CHR$(7) tolls, etc.


--
*: silent key, as in the Morse prosign SK used at the end of a transmission. The implication is that the person's Morse key is now silent forever.

[duikkie]

i will never die

but my girl friend know a little bit what the bbc is about 150 euro a piece

if my machines fall in wrong hands i will be the poltergeist and my bbc's will make a single or no BEEP

[Multiwizard]

i will never die

but my girl friend know a little bit what the bbc is about 150 euro a piece

if my machines fall in wrong hands i will be the poltergeist and my bbc's will make a single or no BEEP

& a pair RIFA's will pop...

[tricky]

I haven't done anything wrt the title but when I had my lung operation, I uploaded all my code to a Google drive and sent Dave the details and told the misses to give everything to him for himself and the community if I didn't make it, but I did, so sorry

[Cruxinc]

this is something i hopefully dont have to worry about (hopefully at least 60 years!)
but when the time comes i would like my collection (hopefully a lot bigger then!) to go to enthusiasts either on here or somewhere else (if potential kids aren’t interested)

[jgharston]

I haven't done anything wrt the title but when I had my lung operation, I uploaded all my code to a Google drive and sent Dave the details and told the misses to give everything to him for himself and the community if I didn't make it, but I did, so sorry

Yes, when I went in for an operation a few years ago I spent the week beforehand ensuring everything was backed up. Just in case.

[Coeus]

This is certainly a thought-provoking thread.

Our next door neighbour died a couple of years ago and it was sobering to see that many things that had been part of his life and that of his late wife for many years, some of which may have had sentimental value, were quickly thrown in a skip by his younger relatives who came to clear the place. This included a framed photograph of someone who was, presumably, a child of one or both of the couple. What was the story there, I wonder. Was he only the child of one of the couple from a previous relationship and it was people related to the other partner who were dealing with the house clearance?

An aunt of mine died a couple of years ago and her husband remarried. After having spent something like 30 years married to my aunt and being well known and well liked by the rest of the family, and after having spent only a couple of years with his new wife, she excluded the living relatives of my aunt from the funeral arrangements as if to say "He was mine at the point of death, you can go to hell!".

A friend at work got back from the funeral for a family member who had died to find other relatives, who had not attended the funeral, were busy loading a van with their pick of the deceased possessions!

I think many people would be quite horrified at what happens in the wake of their death. The number one priority for most, I would think, is to make sure people who are dependent or that you care about, are provided for.

...Thankfully there is no basis in reality for the preposterous situation in Agatha Christie and elsewhere, where the "reading of the will" takes place - and only takes place - once the deceased is well and truly six foot under, but even so even I have known family situations where the house has been cleared pretty quick-sharp, and arguments abound "well, she promised that to me", "Sorry, all had to go, the council insisted on having the flat back by the end of the week" etc.

I think this would be a useful thing to take advice on as to the legal position. I know for some things, if not all, a grant of probate is required you would hope there is a mechanism for keeping a landlord at bay until then. Anyway, ideally, living relatives should know that there is a will and it be clearly understood that the executor must be contacted immediately and that people should refrain from taking things until the executor has worked though it.

I think BeebMaster makes a good point that now, when there is a thriving community of people still playing with 8-bit computers, having them in the community rather than locked up in a museum is indeed preferable but the number of people who want to do that will probably decline over time.

I've left instructions mine all be collected in a giant acorn-shaped "wicker man" and set aflame.

That rather reminds me of a fuss that made the news many years ago when a woman wrote into her will that, upon her death, her horses were to be shot and the executors felt duty bound to carry that out. Whatever you think of that's woman's will, executors do have a duty to carry out the wishes expressed in the will so being specific should be the best way to ensure exactly what you want happens. That doesn't answer the question of what happens if executors refuse. On the assumption that this is a civil, rather than criminal, matter the deceased cannot take action so it would presumably for living relatives, especially beneficiaries, so pursue the matter.

That also doesn't really answer the question of how to specify that someone who understands a collection should use their best judgement as to how to dispose of it. For many things, one might specify that an auction house with the necesarry expertise is engaged and given the job of maximising the return, or that a collection should be sold together, and then who is to have the proceeds. One option, I suppose, would be to bequeath the collection to someone on the understanding that they are supposed to distribute it and with hints as to who to consult.

Interestingly, will came up in a discussion at work and someone posted this link: https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/famil ... eap-wills/ That article does mention digital assets. Maybe most people's digital life is not as complicated as having open sourc eprojects or masses of valuable data on a hard disc, but increasingly people will start to leave a significant digital footprint.

[helpful]

Inspired by this thread, this Monday's (18th March) ROUGOL meeting will be about what to do with your computers and data when you shuffle off this mortal coil - https://rougol.jellybaby.net/meetings/index.html

It would be great if some of the people who have commented here could pop into the meeting to give their thoughts. Either join us in the the pub (by Waterloo Station) for some food, drinks and chat, or contact me (PM or email) for the Zoom link.

Bryan.

[derek]

Hi,

I have quite lot of Acorn Computers, that I have in storage, probably too much for one person. Maybe it is time to dispose of all the collection, if I passed, my wife who throw it all in a skip and dump it all.

I am not religious and do not believe in the afterlife, when you dead that is it... but if I was, I would not go to heaven and use Acorn Computers all day, probably, do down to the other place and have to use Commodore Amigas... not a happy thought.

[arnoldemu]

I'm in the process of helping sorting out my late dad's things and there is a lot and it's taking time.

We are keeping the things that are important to us, the things remind us of him, and the things with memories, like the family beeb, these may not be things that were important to him.

My advice to make it easier:
- keep related things together (e.g. all the beeb stuff)
- where something is worth value note how that can be realized and realized easily, (where to go, who to go, what to do).
- where something can be donated to charity or other people clearly note it with contact information.
- keep it clean
- keep it working
- store it in a clean, dry place

This will really help.

[Cruxinc]

Inspired by this thread, this Monday's (18th March) ROUGOL meeting will be about what to do with your computers and data when you shuffle off this mortal coil - https://rougol.jellybaby.net/meetings/index.html

It would be great if some of the people who have commented here could pop into the meeting to give their thoughts. Either join us in the the pub (by Waterloo Station) for some food, drinks and chat, or contact me (PM or email) for the Zoom link.

Bryan.

hi! what exactly does rougol stand for and what happens in these meetings? thanks

[baz4096]

hi! what exactly does rougol stand for and what happens in these meetings? thanks

ROUGOL = RISC OS User Group of London. I suspect pub stuff and vintage computing related chats.

With regards to the digital footprint mentioned above, over the last ten years or so, I've been slowly (so very slowly) gathering my various passwords and security keys into one (very) secure place, access to which will be added to my will. It's not just a list of passwords and websites, it's also documentation on how to access things, pension details and so. I have paper copies of most of that too, but you never know. I recognise that my kids don't have an interest in my beige collection, but I would trust that they'd remember it has value and wouldn't just turf it into a skip. How much value would be debatable, as I suspect the number of us left at that point with an interest in vintage computing would be considerably lower than now.

I plan on using my final years to build a human sized RIFA to facilitate my cremation.