Stardot, Discord - one, the other, both... thoughts?

[BigEd]

Here we are on Stardot, some of us also participants on Discord. Two places - a messaging place, and a forum place. What do we think about the strengths and weaknesses of each? Of cross-posting? Of patronising both, or just one? Of what happens in the long run?

(Just interested in thoughts and reflections - no agenda!)

[IanS]

If you didn't know there was a discord server, the link is here - viewtopic.php?p=277091#p277091

[sweh]

I'm in both places, but I don't "daily drive" discord ('cos it's a PITA to switch accounts and I don't want my NSFW hobbies to mix up with more normal stuff) so I miss a lot of the chat. If there was a way of having two Discord accounts active at the same time then I'd probably leave a tab open.

I do come here daily.

[Diminished]

I used the Discord for a bit, mainly just to see if I was missing anything important.

I wasn't.

Discord merrily sell every single piece of personal information you type into their platform. Also, I was annoyed by the constant posting of infantile reaction GIFs. So I don't use it any more.

As regards the website, I confess I am rather worried about the possible effect the onerous requirements of the impending Online Safety Bill might have on a community like this one. But, since politics are frowned upon here, I won't write any more about that.

If the website were to disappear, that would almost certainly terminate my involvement with this community.

[SteveBagley]

The big disadvantage with services like Discord is that the information is locked away and you have to use their service to access it and there’s no guarantee that the service will continue to exist in the same form (see Twitter, sorry, X).

Compare that with stardot, where the information is easily open to all and searchable with DuckDuckGo/Google/etc. and control of the service is in the hands of the users, not the whim of whoever currently owns and runs the popular service of the day.

But then I’ve never seen the appeal of a service such as Discord — it doesn’t seem to offer anything that isn’t available better elsewhere…

Steve

[danielj]

Just for the removal of doubt - the forum isn't going anywhere unless something completely unforeseen happens.

We'll also be linking the forum to giphy, just for Diminished

[tricky]

I think I'm a member of half a dozen discord servers for various mostly retro related subjects, but haven't visited any more than a few times. It seems to me that you have to be there 24/7 or at least I can't keep up.
FB is a half way house to me with most of the disadvantages to me of discord and only some of the advantages of the forum.
I'll be staying here as long as I can and have no notifications turned on for any other social media
I also prefer email to texts and only rarely make a phone call, make of that what you will

[dominicbeesley]

My experience is the same as Tricky's I've been cajoled into joining various groups but find it too stressy to have notifications turned on and quickly lose the thread when they're off, reading back to follow a conversation is too frustrating.

I really love forums as they provide reasonably prompt feedback without being totally ephemeral like Discord, X or Facebook. The stuff on here and places like the 6502.org forums is invaluable and a really good archival resource. I've never really worked out how properly to search X or Facebook for old posts without turning up mountains of dross, a google search of the

Code: Select all

site:stardot.org.uk ...

form usually turns up the goods. I often have to search back over my own posts to remember what I was doing a few years ago!

I suspect Ed, that if you posed this same question on Discord you'd probably get diametrically opposing answers.

D

[BigEd]

As it happens, I posted first on Discord. Got broadly similar answers, TBH: the forum is a record, and is searchable. The discord is low friction, easier on mobile, but for throwaway chat.

And there is also FaceBook, which I didn't even consider because I don't go there. Maybe it's a middle ground. I suspect it's poor for categorisation, and personally I think categorisation is very handy, because our interest is a broad interest with many niches, and putting everything into one pool will dilute - for any one of us - the good stuff with the less interesting. But everyone's ranking of niches will differ, which is why hashtags seem to work pretty poorly over on the fediverse. I've pretty much given up on Mastodon for that reason.

Normally I'd not even bother with Discord, and have long had a resistance, but FOMO got me, and I find I have to keep an eye on the stardot channel(s), which is one of only about 3 and the only very active one in my world.

[trixster]

If there’s anything about the discord that people would like to see changed/improved/removed etc then let us know, we’re happy to take on board suggestions. There’s no point having it if there are aspects that put people off!

I think I share others’ assessments - Stardot is a record that we can all refer to, we can access it and follow threads in our own time. the discord is a bit more like pub chat - it hops from topic to topic as ppl check in and out. I think there’s a place for both.

[Ukwebb]

what about facebook ?
i probably use that more then either *. or discord

as i put on discord :

between discord, facebook and stardot : my view is :

Stardot is more of a smart Library, lots of history information but you can still ask new things, which are added to the library

Facebook is more like a Show and Tell, nothing specific just the "look at what i've done/just bought/got for sale"

Discord is more like the village pub, just for ongoing flow of conversation, if you miss it, you've missed it, and we've all walked in halfway into your mates conversation and then try to be part of the conversation like you've been there all along

Overall - FB is generally more accessible due to its general popularity, followed by Stardot , and lastly Discord, many people simply dont know about it or see the point of it.

[danielj]

There's also a little bit of what you're used to - I cut my internet teeth on talkers, and then forums as the web took off. Discord is essentially the talker (or IRC) - dip in, dip out, quick answers to quick questions, rambling streams of consciousness, and for the most part humour that doesn't get lost in translation as people can respond immediately. Forums are the record - they hold the archive of proper big discussion topics and information. As others have said, this forum's easily searched with google (prefix your searches with site:stardot.org.uk).

Facebook is fine I guess for people who want to show off pictures of beebs, but I find it pretty awful for trying to help anyone on a grand scale, or provide useful information - replies show up in strange orders, things get repeated (Look! BBC Micro on TV! Look! Double decker buses with Acorn Logos!), people don't see everything depending on the whim of various algorithms. It's not much use as a repository or reference. Also seems to be good for creating a good deal of FOMO around various items/bits of hardware!

d.

[BeebMaster]

Well, if I was to use it, whatever it is, it would have to be renamed Accord first.

[1024MAK]

Here on Stardot is best IMHO. Unless you’re only here for an interactive chat.

As Daniel says, Facebook is a pain. Even if you are an admin for a group it’s a pain IMHO.
Twatter/Twitter/X is a pain. And the owner keeps tinkering with it.
Discord is far too much effort to keep up with.

And yes, I’m on Facebook and Discord, but am rarely on either.

And Telegram is even worse for emojis and infantile reaction GIFs… (and yes, I’ve tried that as well, also far too much effort to keep up with on busy groups).

So, it depends on what floats your boat, the choice is yours.

Mark

[Sophira]

So... I participate on both the forum and on Discord. I'm... not really a fan of Discord, for reasons that have already been discussed, and Stardot is one of the very few remaining communities where Discord is optional. I appreciate that a lot. And the fact ism the forum is clearly not only active but it's also well-maintained. (For example, see the recent phpBB upgrade.)

I strongly dislike that many communities have migrated solely to Discord, so I'm very pleased that Stardot will not be doing so. While it's true that Discord recently implemented "forum channels", they're really little more than channels that only allow chat threads.

At the same time, I also recognise Discord's functionality is superior to, say, IRC. Now I love IRC, don't get me wrong. In fact, I'd probably prefer it if Stardot used IRC instead of Discord... but the truth is, when you look at it strictly from a functionality and usability point of view, Discord wins that duel hands down, which is the exact reason why so many communities do use it. And at least some arguments against Discord can also apply against IRC, like how discussions on Discord can't easily be found if you're not in the server. (Heck, for that particular one Discord can also claim a partial victory; it keeps logs of all channels which are searchable by anyone in the server.)

But let's not kid ourselves. The fact is that Discord is free, and when a corporation in this day and age offers something for free, it's usually because you're the product. It's even worse in this case because Discord doesn't even have ads, and they survived that through millions of dollars in venture capital. When venture capitalists invest, they do it because they have an expectation of seeing not only their money back, but a profit from doing so. And hosting all this real-time infrastructure - along with the storage for quick access to every channel's entire chat history - must be costing Discord a heck of a lot of money.

[MillieTD83]

So... I participate on both the forum and on Discord. I'm... not really a fan of Discord, for reasons that have already been discussed, and Stardot is one of the very few remaining communities where Discord is optional. I appreciate that a lot. And the fact ism the forum is clearly not only active but it's also well-maintained. (For example, see the recent phpBB upgrade.)

I strongly dislike that many communities have migrated solely to Discord, so I'm very pleased that Stardot will not be doing so. While it's true that Discord recently implemented "forum channels", they're really little more than channels that only allow chat threads.

At the same time, I also recognise Discord's functionality is superior to, say, IRC. Now I love IRC, don't get me wrong. In fact, I'd probably prefer it if Stardot used IRC instead of Discord... but the truth is, when you look at it strictly from a functionality and usability point of view, Discord wins that duel hands down, which is the exact reason why so many communities do use it. And at least some arguments against Discord can also apply against IRC, like how discussions on Discord can't easily be found if you're not in the server. (Heck, for that particular one Discord can also claim a partial victory; it keeps logs of all channels which are searchable by anyone in the server.)

But let's not kid ourselves. The fact is that Discord is free, and when a corporation in this day and age offers something for free, it's usually because you're the product. It's even worse in this case because Discord doesn't even have ads, and they survived that through millions of dollars in venture capital. When venture capitalists invest, they do it because they have an expectation of seeing not only their money back, but a profit from doing so. And hosting all this real-time infrastructure - along with the storage for quick access to every channel's entire chat history - must be costing Discord a heck of a lot of money.

Now there's an idea... a Beeb (or Arch), running an IRC server for us. I'd be up for that.

[guesser]

I'm a fan of irc, and that's why I tolerate Discord.
It solves irc's main problem that "normals" just won't use it.

There's a ZX Spectrum discord that's constantly busy now while the irc channels have had single digits of people idling for a decade.

I agree with all the criticism of communities moving all their resources into discord posts instead of proper websites and wikis on the open internet but it does seem to be the solution to casual chat in 2023.

(And instant messaging for me since things like google talk/hangouts shut down since I refuse to use the mobile dependent services)

[Ukwebb]

The thing here is. As BigEd said, he posted the same question on Discord.
Try to find it now, just two days after, and it's a nightmare.
Discord is brilliant for a constant flowing conversation, or pub chat as I call it, but absolutely useless at conversations about specific conversations like this , and the many others on FB and stardot.

[IanJeffray]

absolutely useless at conversations about specific conversations like this , and the many others on FB and stardot.

You can create threads on discord. But it's very rarely used.

[danielj]

You can create threads on discord. But it's very rarely used.

It's horrible and clunky.

I will note that the search on discord is actually very good - finding anything on Facebook is a complete hit/miss affair.

[sweh]

(And instant messaging for me since things like google talk/hangouts shut down since I refuse to use the mobile dependent services)

FWIW, google chat still works in a browser on the desktop; https://chat.google.com (which redirects to https://mail.google.com/chat/u/0/ )

And to keep this post slightly on topic and to add to my previous response; since Farcebook has been mentioned, I don't use that abomination at all.

[guesser]

FWIW, google chat still works in a browser on the desktop; https://chat.google.com (which redirects to https://mail.google.com/chat/u/0/ )

Yeah gave up on it when they finally shut off the xmpp gateway as that's when it ceased to be useful to me as an instant messenger. If anyone sends me a message I assume it will just languish in the inbox and never be seen. That said, I'd basically stopped receiving anything years ago anyway as everyone else seems to have moved to WhatsApp or something.

[Sophira]

I will note that the search on discord is actually very good - finding anything on Facebook is a complete hit/miss affair.

It's not as good as it seems to be, sadly. I know for a fact that a search that should have resulted in finding a message did not.

It's actually reproducible, but I'm not sure what causes it. Try typing the following two lines into Discord as separate lines (perhaps in a group PM that only has you in it, so that you don't disturb anyone):

This is a fun test of search.

This is a fun test of Discord search.

Then wait a few minutes so that the messages are indexed in search. You will find that the messages have some weird properties:

• If you search for the words fun search, only the first message will be found.
• If you search for the words test search, both messages will be found.
• If you search for the words fun test search, both messages will be found.
• If you search for the words test fun search, only the first message will be found.
• If you search for the words test fun, both messages will be found.
• If you search for the words this fun search, neither message will be found. (Though to be fair, this may be something to do with some kind of common-word-removal algorithm.)

I can't explain these results. It doesn't seem to matter what order you search for the messages in, but it seems to be completely reproducible as far as I can tell. The point is, though, Discord's search is not as reliable as it may seem.

[danielj]

groo. I guess it's still more than you can do with IRC. I haven't had any bother finding things I've wanted to but that does seem bizarre.

[Multiwizard]

Hi,

stardot is much more accessible & less complicated then discord,

for me, discord is for people thinking being smarter because it's more complicated to use...

(But who am (a nobody) I to judge... LOL)

[baz4096]

I like ukwebb's explanation:

Stardot is a permanent record.
Facebook is for show and tell.
Discord is for immediate chat.

One thing to note:

The Stardot forum content is owned by us, the community. We have no complicated terms and conditions restricting access, nor strange algorithms dictating what order content is presented. Post something on FB or Discord and it's mostly beyond your control, and therefore disposable.

[sydney]

Stardot. All day every day.
Facebook seems too random. It chooses what I see.
Discord I've used only a handful of times and never really got on with it. Not sure why as I used IRC quite a lot bitd.
Maybe my love for stardot clouds my view of the alternatives

[daveejhitchins]

Not been on Discord . . . I have all-on to keep-up with *. and my other Forum Morris Minor Owners Club - Not even sure what it's all about: Discord, noun - "disagreement between people" - maybe enough discord without me joining in

Dave H.

[flynnjs]

TBH: the forum is a record, and is searchable. The discord is low friction, easier on mobile, but for throwaway chat.

This is an extremely important point. We all know first hand how difficult preservation is, we've
all put a lot of thought and effort into it, else we wouldn't be here. So we have to have to think
about the meta, the preservation of the preservation.
Using any of the usual commercial outfits seems like a good way to put that in jeopardy.

[Rob_hawk]

Stardot wins hands down for research and knowledge building. The community is rather special too.

Discord has its place for conversation when there’s likely not a need for the info contained within to be readily available to aid others in future.

As a relatively new comer to Stardot and my Beeb/Acorn project I’d not be where I am today had I just had Discord available to me.