Satan’s Challenge Or Nevil Rides Out (1984)

[lurkio]

Does anyone have a working copy of the BBC Micro game Satan’s Challenge Or Nevil Rides Out on tape or disc?

The .SSD disc-images at StairwayToHell and bbcmicro.co.uk are identical and both seem to have bugs and/or file corruption:

viewtopic.php?p=373822#p373822

There’s a copy of the cassette version at the Centre For Computing History in Cambridge — is anyone able to get a capture of it?:

http://www.computinghistory.org.uk/det/ ... Challenge/

[Diminished]

Does anyone have a working copy of the BBC Micro game Satan’s Challenge Or Nevil Rides Out on tape or disc?

The .SSD disc-images at StairwayToHell and bbcmicro.co.uk are identical and both seem to have bugs and/or file corruption:

viewtopic.php?p=373822#p373822

There’s a copy of the cassette version at the Centre For Computing History in Cambridge — is anyone able to get a capture of it?:

http://www.computinghistory.org.uk/det/ ... Challenge/

I'll see what I can do.

[lurkio]

I'll see what I can do.

[fuzzel]

Hi Diminished, I've come across another bug in the disc version so I'm looking forward to you retrieving it when it's convenient. I presume you're a Cambridge lad?

[Diminished]

Hi Diminished, I've come across another bug in the disc version so I'm looking forward to you retrieving it when it's convenient. I presume you're a Cambridge lad?

"Lad" is perhaps a bit generous these days, but I am local, yes.

[Diminished]

Email sent, so we'll see what happens.

More meat for the Quadbike test corpus!

[lurkio]

Email sent, so we'll see what happens.

Did they get back to you?

[Diminished]

Email sent, so we'll see what happens.

Did they get back to you?

No -- I emailed them six days ago and have heard nothing, which I'm slightly annoyed about. I would understand if they didn't trust me not to trash their tape, but it would be nice if they'd just tell me that.

I could try emailing them again -- I don't know if anyone else who is interested in getting this done wants to try emailing them as well.

I could just turn up in person and try to do it that way. I have a membership to the museum for the time being, so I can get in for nothing. I suspect it might take them a while to find the tape though, in which case I'd have to end up making two separate trips.

[lurkio]

I emailed them six days ago and have heard nothing, which I'm slightly annoyed about. I would understand if they didn't trust me not to trash their tape, but it would be nice if they'd just tell me that.

I could try emailing them again -- I don't know if anyone else who is interested in getting this done wants to try emailing them as well.

Hmm. I already tweeted CCH to ask about this, but there was no response.

I’ll try PM’ing jbnbeeb but I don’t hold out much hope for a response because he hasn’t been active on Stardot for ages.

I’ll also try emailing CCH myself.

I could just turn up in person and try to do it that way.

I think it’s worth a shot, but of course that’s easy for me to say when it’s you who’ll be putting in all the time and effort!

[lurkio]

Had a reply from the Colllections Officer at CCH:

I'm very sorry if we have annoyed anyone by not replying, but we have had people off with Covid amongst other things, so have not got round to replying.

I'm sorry, but we are not able to have anyone bring their equipment into the museum to copy. We can do this now we know it is needed, this would not be until after the retro Festival we have coming up, as we are still short staffed and extra busy that weekend.

[fuzzel]

And the good news is that the festival takes place this weekend so we'll have that copy early next week thanks!

[Diminished]

Had a reply from the Colllections Officer at CCH:

I'm very sorry if we have annoyed anyone by not replying, but we have had people off with Covid amongst other things, so have not got round to replying.

I'm sorry, but we are not able to have anyone bring their equipment into the museum to copy. We can do this now we know it is needed, this would not be until after the retro Festival we have coming up, as we are still short staffed and extra busy that weekend.

Thanks for letting me know. I still haven't heard anything, which doesn't really surprise me. I am getting annoyed with CFCH -- they have an awful track record of replying to my emails, they bungled the dates of my membership, and I feel like anything donated to them disappears into a black hole of bureaucratic irretrievability.

If they get back in touch with you and send you a WAV file or something, could I please have a copy? I am trying to develop Quadbike and I need all the test data I can get. vanekp's archive is great, but I think some of his WAVs have been filtered, which is not ideal. Otherwise I only really have the sorry remnants of my own Acorn collection, which is far from extensive.

[fuzzel]

If they get back in touch with you and send you a WAV file or something, could I please have a copy? I am trying to develop Quadbike and I need all the test data I can get. vanekp's archive is great, but I think some of his WAVs have been filtered, which is not ideal. Otherwise I only really have the sorry remnants of my own Acorn collection, which is far from extensive.

I have a couple of WAV files which I recorded recently from some old cassettes in the loft. One I believe is an adventure called Atlantis and the other is a rendition of Toccata and Fugue in D minor by Bach. Would you be interested in crunching these through your Quadbike? If so I'll send them to you (I don't think I can upload them here).

[Pernod]

I have a couple of WAV files which I recorded recently from some old cassettes in the loft. One I believe is an adventure called Atlantis and the other is a rendition of Toccata and Fugue in D minor by Bach.

Is Toccata this one?

[Diminished]

If they get back in touch with you and send you a WAV file or something, could I please have a copy? I am trying to develop Quadbike and I need all the test data I can get. vanekp's archive is great, but I think some of his WAVs have been filtered, which is not ideal. Otherwise I only really have the sorry remnants of my own Acorn collection, which is far from extensive.

I have a couple of WAV files which I recorded recently from some old cassettes in the loft. One I believe is an adventure called Atlantis and the other is a rendition of Toccata and Fugue in D minor by Bach. Would you be interested in crunching these through your Quadbike? If so I'll send them to you (I don't think I can upload them here).

Yes, please, if you could. Stick them on Google Drive or something? FLAC files will work, if you don't want to upload giant WAVs.

I really should upload the WAV recordings I've made myself, too.

I've asked three or four times on Stardot about getting hold of more digital recordings of tapes, but never attracted much interest, so, again: If anyone else has anything and is prepared to share it, I would be grateful.

There is a still a lot of stuff that needs fixing in Quadbike 2, but I am gradually becoming more confident about it.

[lurkio]

If they get back in touch with you and send you a WAV file or something, could I please have a copy?

Yes, of course.

But I had a further reply from the Collections Officer:

we will copy the tape, then if we are able to satisfy that it is still in no way owned by anyone, we can release it, it will then be subject to a signed agreement.

Our processes are now quite robust in that we abide by accreditation rules, which means items in our collection have to be handled by staff only.

So, if the tape clears all the accreditation and copyright hurdles then I guess it will be released digitally, though I’m not sure exactly how or to whom they tend to release these things.

[Diminished]

The moral of the story appears to be: Don't donate anything to CFCH, unless you want the community never to see it again.

[philpem]

The moral of the story appears to be: Don't donate anything to CFCH, unless you want the community never to see it again.

It's a disappointing change, given how helpful they've been in the past.

Seems like if you want to preserve something, the way to go is to keep it in the community (i.e. away from the "if I back it up it loses its value" ghouls), and help it find its way to archive.org...

[baz4096]

we will copy the tape, then if we are able to satisfy that it is still in no way owned by anyone, we can release it, it will then be subject to a signed agreement.

Our processes are now quite robust in that we abide by accreditation rules, which means items in our collection have to be handled by staff only.

This statement seems to be at odds with their Research page:

Researching our Collections
We welcome researchers and others who wish to use objects in our collection for their studies. If you have a research query, contact us on admin@computinghistory.org.uk.

If there are specific items in the collection that you would like access to, please quote the object ID (listed at the bottom of each object's web page) in your query.

(Source)

And from Jason Fitzpatrick himself:

...We need an army of volunteers to help us preserve, document and contextualise each item we have in the collection...

(source)

Seems to me like this is what you're trying to do?

Also, having just scanned the Museum Accreditation Standard, there's a big point: "Be accessible to the public".

This has perhaps wound me up more than it should...

[fuzzel]

I have a couple of WAV files which I recorded recently from some old cassettes in the loft. One I believe is an adventure called Atlantis and the other is a rendition of Toccata and Fugue in D minor by Bach.

Is Toccata this one?

No, it's homebrew.

[fuzzel]

Following on from my previous post I'd like to say a big thank you to Diminished for successfully converting my WAV file recording of a dodgy old tape to a uef using his peerless Quadbike program. The program in question is a rendition of Bach's Toccata and Fugue in D minor. Running it brought back some happy memories from my schooldays and also got me thinking so I'll post something about it shortly in the "8-bit acorn software - other" sub-section:
viewforum.php?f=2
I now have everything crossed that he's able to convert my (well, jointly written with a friend) old text adventure, Atlantis. If not, I'm afraid it will probably be lost for ever.

[BigEd]

I think their approach to copyright materials is consistent with, say, the Science Museum and the British Library. You can take copies of things they have, for your research, but you have to sign a thing which says you're not going to publish your copies, or something to that effect.

So, there is access to the public, but not the kind of access you get from Archive.org.

[Diminished]

peerless Quadbike program

"Peerless" is not the word I would use. "Bug-riddled" is more accurate.

[fuzzel]

Had a reply from the Colllections Officer at CCH:

I'm very sorry if we have annoyed anyone by not replying, but we have had people off with Covid amongst other things, so have not got round to replying.

I'm sorry, but we are not able to have anyone bring their equipment into the museum to copy. We can do this now we know it is needed, this would not be until after the retro Festival we have coming up, as we are still short staffed and extra busy that weekend.

Hi lurkio, I presume you've not heard back from CCH yet? I was hoping to compare the tape version of the game to the corrupted disc version we have to see if the missing locations were there. Well, actually to do a full comparison of the two versions.

[lurkio]

Hi lurkio, I presume you've not heard back from CCH yet?

No. All I know is what I’ve mentioned and quoted in this thread. I haven’t been given a timescale or any further info really.

[Diminished]

Needless to say, I never heard a thing.

[lurkio]

I had a further reply from the Collections Officer:

we will copy the tape, then if we are able to satisfy that it is still in no way owned by anyone, we can release it, it will then be subject to a signed agreement. Our processes are now quite robust in that we abide by accreditation rules, which means items in our collection have to be handled by staff only.

So, if the tape clears all the accreditation and copyright hurdles then I guess it will be released digitally, though I’m not sure exactly how or to whom they tend to release these things.

Had another reply on 1st February:

We have been looking at the tape, can't believe so much time has passed. We have been very careful with it, as it is incredibly stiff, so have been using a few unintrusive ways of loosening it up. The final but riskier option would have been to split it open and transplant into another case, read it then put it back. Thankfully we have managed to loosen it up without using that drastic action. We will now try and see if it loads before any attempt to copy it.

And another on 2nd February, together with screenshots of the tape loading into a real Beeb:

We've loaded the tape, it's a very long one, and a multiload, played it for a bit, the beginning is less than thrilling! Now to see if we can get a stable copy

I followed up on 3rd and 20th February, but there's been no reply.

[fuzzel]

Can you call them or is it email correspondence only?

[Diminished]

Bunch of muppets.

unintrusive ways of loosening it up

Yeah, I know the thing with the hexagonal biro too.

We will now try and see if it loads before any attempt to copy it.

Why? If you're worried about the fragility of the tape, why not go straight to WAV, or better, why not digitise it and try to load it simultaneously?

Just as well the foam pad hasn't disintegrated. I expect their brains would have exploded.

[fuzzel]

I had a further reply from the Collections Officer:

we will copy the tape, then if we are able to satisfy that it is still in no way owned by anyone, we can release it, it will then be subject to a signed agreement. Our processes are now quite robust in that we abide by accreditation rules, which means items in our collection have to be handled by staff only.

So, if the tape clears all the accreditation and copyright hurdles then I guess it will be released digitally, though I’m not sure exactly how or to whom they tend to release these things.

Had another reply on 1st February:

We have been looking at the tape, can't believe so much time has passed. We have been very careful with it, as it is incredibly stiff, so have been using a few unintrusive ways of loosening it up. The final but riskier option would have been to split it open and transplant into another case, read it then put it back. Thankfully we have managed to loosen it up without using that drastic action. We will now try and see if it loads before any attempt to copy it.

And another on 2nd February, together with screenshots of the tape loading into a real Beeb:

We've loaded the tape, it's a very long one, and a multiload, played it for a bit, the beginning is less than thrilling! Now to see if we can get a stable copy

I followed up on 3rd and 20th February, but there's been no reply.

Hi lurkio, I don't suppose you could give them a nudge? If they've managed to play the game, although it probably took a number of attempts with changes to volume / pitch etc to get each file loaded, why didn't they save each file to a brand spanking new tape? Maybe they've now done that ...