Citadel Revenge

[Rob_J]

Citadel wasn't my favourite game back in the 80's, but I always admired the complex environment (and crazy colours); so when I'm nostalgic I often turn to that game (and Cylon Attack) to relax when listening to a podcast.
I spent a lot of time learning 6502 assembler, but never got too far, back in the day; so I always meant to revisit it at some point. BeebEm is so excellent that in June/July this anniversary year, I finally took the plunge again. The result is Citadel Revenge, my homage to the original. (I also wanted to see if I could write something within the limits of the Model B.)

http://www.bbcmicro.co.uk/game.php?id=4030

The solution to Citadel was not exactly obvious! (I recall a friend at school providing the necessary answers.) Revenge is hopefully a little more intuitive (batteries not included perhaps), but it contains more logic puzzles; as well as objects to be delivered to key locations.

If you don't want to spend time figuring out the relationships, the answers/spoilers are hopefully attached.

RWJ 2021 (posted between power cuts!)

[0xC0DE]

Had a quick play, looking excellent!

[Diminished]

Welcome to the forum!

This looks great! I have played it a little, but I will play more of it soon.

I love how "alternate universe" it feels. Making the map similar in many places to MJ's classic was a great idea. If you're intimately familiar with the original game, then you feel impelled to explore, because you really want to see what's changed. In many ways, that makes it more compelling than it would have been with a completely new map.

Regarding "comfort replays" of the original Citadel, there does exist an Item Randomiser (or on bbcmicro here) if you haven't encountered it before. This provides effectively infinite route variations on the original game, making it much more replayable.

[Rob_J]

Hi Diminished

If I'm being honest, I'm not that creative, so using the original layout (up to a point) gave me a head start. But then again, I definitely wanted it to have that feeling of familiarity.

I recently took a look at the item randomiser - much more intelligent than I assumed from the name. I'll definitely give it a go.

Just been playing Castle Defender, trying to get the hang of it... addictive, yet infuriating in a fun way... I'm sure I can figure it out if I have just one more game...

[1024MAK]

For a link to the other topic about this game see here

Mark

[davidb]

I like the new take on the Citadel map and updated locations. It's familiar yet confusing in a good way.
I also like the way that the interaction between keys and doors adds another layer of puzzles to those involving other objects.

I can also see that there's a lot of scope for planning an optimal route.

[VectorEyes]

I just wanted to say that I'm enjoying this. There's some great design choices in here as well. I particularly liked how the game detects when you're jumping up onto an object (e.g. the plant pots on the screen to the right of the start screen) and helps you 'latch onto' the edge and move along the top. It's little touches like this that make a game stand out.

One minor criticism (and it really is minor!) is that sometimes you have the same screen repeated more than once, e.g. to the left of the map I came across two identical screens containing three crab creatures, so I basically had to navigate the same screen twice. It's not a big thing, but it makes the game seem slightly less compact. (Of course, there may be some reason for this I haven't yet discovered!)

Anyway, it's a lovely game, thanks for making it!

[davidb]

I like that there isn't any fall damage.

Some screens are a bit annoying. The aliens/crabs being four of them. The one with the pair of spiders as well.

I think it's very well done. Up there in the same league as Citadel, with some interesting puzzle and digging mechanics instead of the object puzzles of the "original". It's not always intuitive how to use all the objects, though that's true of many old-school arcade adventures.

No, I didn't read the hints.

[Rob_J]

@VectorEyes & davidb

Thanks for the positive feedback

There are a few repeat locations - sorry! (more than in the original) - at first this was a tactic to help get to 100 locations, and it was also a cheap way to help the kingdom wrap round at the edges on a 32 x 8 grid, without wasting too many resources getting there.
Again, being honest, I was trying every tactic I could to ensure the game fit into the memory available to the original Model B - which meant compromises. (Limiting the game to the Model B was a primary goal.)

Failures - I always planned to include the tall monks and spells to shoot them in the eyes, but the game development wandered away from that.
I wanted the cannon graphics, but ran out of room. I think I could have made the ground shake from a high fall too, but that got dropped - as well as the inherent damage, but then mushrooms are light and pretty robust!
The trampolines seemed like too much hard work, so I left it at being happy with acceleration in the y-axis for gravity etc.
No background stars, in part, because of the different plotting method used.
Energy potions are found on pads - also saving extra coding, but I initially wanted them scattered separately like the original.

The last available chunk of memory was used to add a few more rooms, as well as add monsters/items to existing rooms, rather than for code.

Plus, I initially wanted the game to run with more monsters per room - up to 6 or 7 in a single room, but the only room with 6 animated objects turned out to be the temple roof (but that led me to add the guard on top of the east tower).

[davidb]

I think the differences between this game and Citadel are some of the things that make it interesting.

Finding all the crystals was a nice challenge.

There's a lot of freedom in how to approach the puzzles, so there's scope for replaying it. A randomiser might be an interesting way to make the game even more replayable. It would have been nice if solving puzzles sometimes rewarded the player with more energy.

I think I found a bug with the ice crystal. I don't know where I left it, but something managed to confuse the game. Sorry!

(Attachment deleted)

[lovebug]

welcome

really nice game, well done

[Rob_J]

@davidb - You had me worried there for a moment - it took me a minute to remember that it's doing what it's supposed to! (Although the the logic isn't apparent.)

Each room that contains water also has an inherent/default temperature either below or above freezing. So by taking away the heat crystal, the water in this location returns to its 'default' state of frozen, whereas the ocean's default is above freezing.

The combination of 'default' temperature + crystal combinations, allowed for a few variations of the same type of puzzle.

Rob

[Diminished]

Hmm ... wondering if people should use spoiler tags in this thread for talking about puzzle specifics? It is a new game after all!

Does this forum even have spoiler tags? I can't see them. Might have to resort to making text tiny instead.

[davidb]

@davidb - You had me worried there for a moment - it took me a minute to remember that it's doing what it's supposed to! (Although the the logic isn't apparent.)

Each room that contains water also has an inherent/default temperature either below or above freezing. So by taking away the heat crystal, the water in this location returns to its 'default' state of frozen, whereas the ocean's default is above freezing.

The combination of 'default' temperature + crystal combinations, allowed for a few variations of the same type of puzzle.

I wondered about that, but thought I might be overthinking it.

Diminished: Sorry to post a spoiler. I'll go back and hide the image.

[BigEd]

Can always use rot13 (rot13.com)

[Rob_J]

Not so much a spoiler in this instance, as a clarification of the game mechanics

(I've never been a fan of games where the solutions are seemingly random - I was playing Omega Orb recently where there's no apparent link between the objects and the locations they relate to. I never finished playing that one, even though it was cleverly done. I guess it's personal preference, but Imogen was an old favourite that I replay every so often.)

[VectorEyes]

Finished the game, great fun. I had one final question that I think I'd better spoiler behind ROT13, because it's going to reveal things that you only see once you've got quite a long way in:

V svavfurq gur tnzr jvgu 9 trzf. V gubhtug V'q unir gb cvpx hc gur zbaxrl svthevar, naq gura urnq onpx gb gur qentba naq whzc ba vgf onpx gb svavfu gur tnzr. Ohg gur tnzr raqrq jura V tbg gur svthevar! Abj V ernyyl jnag gb xabj vs gurer jnf nal cbvag gb gur uvtu ynqqre gb gur evtug bs gur qentba, naq jung jbhyq unir unccrarq vs V'q pyvzorq hc vg naq whzcrq bss gb gur yrsg. Vg'f n ybiryl tnzr ohg V'z gbb gvzr-cbbe gb cynl gur jubyr guvat guebhtu ntnva whfg gb trg gb gur gnyy ynqqre. Pbhyq lbh fngvfsl zl phevbfvgl?

[davidb]

Lbh pna whzc ba gbc bs gur qentba naq pbagvahr gb gur yrsg jurer lbh'yy svaq gur rqtr bs gur ohvyqvat, fb V qba'g guvax gurer'f nalguvat lbh zvffrq.

Qvq lbh pyvzo bagb gur ebbs bs gur grzcyr?

[VectorEyes]

Gunaxf Qnivq. V jbaqre jung gung znffvir ynqqre vf sbe gura?

V qvq pyvzo bagb gur grzcyr ebbs. Nera'g lbh sbeprq gb? Gurer'f ab bgure jnl gb trg npebff bagb gur evtug-unaq-fvqr bs gur grzcyr naq bognva gur fphon rdhvczrag, vf gurer?

[TobyLobster]

Congratulations on this game - I'm very much enjoying figuring out these new Citadel style puzzles.

[davidb]

Gunaxf Qnivq. V jbaqre jung gung znffvir ynqqre vf sbe gura?

V qvq pyvzo bagb gur grzcyr ebbs. Nera'g lbh sbeprq gb? Gurer'f ab bgure jnl gb trg npebff bagb gur evtug-unaq-fvqr bs gur grzcyr naq bognva gur fphon rdhvczrag, vf gurer?

Lrf, vg frrzf gung lbh unir gb pyvzo bagb gur grzcyr ebbs vs lbh sbyybj jung V rkcrpg vf gur vagraqrq ebhgr.
V sbetbg nobhg gung orpnhfr V vavgvnyyl sbhaq gung lbh pna farnxvyl fjvz npebff gur frn ol punatvat fperraf bsgra naq gnxvat qnzntr. Gung jnl, lbh pna trg gur fphon trne irel dhvpxyl.

[Rob_J]

Very glad that the game is being enjoyed

Lbh pna qvir orarngu gur fgvatvat frn-jrrqf naq trg gb gur fhesnpr ntnva dhvpxyl (orsber fhfgnvavat qnzntr) ol ubyqvat gur whzc xrl ng gur fnzr gvzr, fvzvyne gb orvat ba n ynqqre.