Sourcing The Crystal Rainforest

[registry_editor]

I'm trying to find a working copy of the original Crystal Rainforest by Sherston Software and am having extreme difficulty.

This title was ubiquitous in UK schools during the 90s and I had expected to find an excess of copies available on eBay as well as disk images to download online, but I can find nothing.

If anybody has any clues that might point me in the right direction I would be most grateful.

Reg_ed

[danielj]

People are a bit jumpier about Archimedes software as quite a bit of it moved to Windows and versions of the same thing are still sold.

This particular title isn't actually that frequently found - it's also protected and needs a key disk - I'm not aware of any disc images of it in general circulation

[steven_gilson]

I have an original copy of it, not sure what licence it is or whether it can be imaged yet. I also have Crystal Rainforest 2. Will have a look at the weekend.

[danielj]

Well, it's still under copyright. The keydisc can't be copied by normal means, but a greaseweazle can do it.

[philpem]

Well, it's still under copyright. The keydisc can't be copied by normal means, but a greaseweazle can do it.

Who owns the copyright to Sherston's back catalogue now they've ceased trading? They seem to have been bought by Big Clever Learning, but even they've apparently sunk without trace.

I've been looking for a copy too - I'm curious if the disk protection is anything like Badger Trails, which turned out to be fairly easy to bypass and convert for hard disc use. Copying is another story, but a HFE image was good enough to boot the game unmodified.

Regarding why Sherston stuff is so rare - their products were mostly "edutainment" titles. Their market was really education, although they did a few "Sherston Home" releases which didn't come with the teaching support materials.
The documentation and teacher packs quickly got separated from the discs during use. Towards the end, when most schools replaced the Acorns with PCs, the disk boxes and machines would have probably ended up in a skip.

The copies I've seen come up for sale are either overstock from dealers (which the likes of CJE price like gold bullion) or situations where teachers have either bought a copy for their own use or saved them when schools threw them out.

Cheers
Phil

[awilliams]

Daniel & Phil,
The site licenced version does not seem encumbered.
The copy I have is licensed to somebody I know so I am going to have to think about that a bit.

Is there somebody here who is actively collecting and archiving RISC OS educational software?
I had half a dozen RISC PCs that were given to me when they stopped being loaned out, they have a decently large collection of special needs and other education software on them. I have given most of them away now but my kids still have one. I would be happy to zip up the whole drive in any manor suggested and put it some where to be scurried off with & I never want to hear about it again

Alan

[Stwert]

Daniel & Phil,
The site licenced version does not seem encumbered.
The copy I have is licensed to somebody I know so I am going to have to think about that a bit.

Is there somebody here who is actively collecting and archiving RISC OS educational software?
I had half a dozen RISC PCs that were given to me when they stopped being loaned out, they have a decently large collection of special needs and other education software on them. I have given most of them away now but my kids still have one. I would be happy to zip up the whole drive in any manor suggested and put it some where to be scurried off with & I never want to hear about it again

Alan

Although I need to spend - probably several months, sorting everything out, because it’s all a bit (complet) of a mess, I’ve been archiving everything I can for almost every system since the 70’s.

Admittedly I’ll never get everything, that’s beyond doubtful, but I’m currently running at around 20 odd terabytes of software, magazines, manuals and so on.

My plan is to eventually get it all sorted to an acceptable level and share everything on a website I’ve parked for it.
So I’m always happy to take donations of anything and everything. Though I dare say there will be people far more organised than I.

[BigEd]

Sounds great! I very much encourage you to share your collection early. Too many projects wither on the vine because they never quite become 'ready', and so no-one gets the benefits of the work-in-progress. This is a very friendly and helpful community, so you needn't worry about negativity if there are rough edges.

[Stwert]

Ach, I wouldn’t be worried about negativity from this community. It’s me I have to worry about most

[OldTimer]

Did you manage to find a copy in the end?

[OldTimer]

I have an original copy of it, not sure what licence it is or whether it can be imaged yet. I also have Crystal Rainforest 2. Will have a look at the weekend.

Hi, I just wondered if you got anywhere with this?

[karlwhitfield13]

I have a working windows copy

[Darkpilaf]

Hello there, i have 2 copies. 1 of which is complete and unused. I've been trying to get a version of it i can play through an emulator for nostalgia and to let my kids play. Looking to see if i can get someone to help me as its well above my expertise.

[iomanoid]

I’m curious as to why anyone gives a flying @!#?@! about copyright on RISC OS 2/3 Archimedes software these days. And I know people do, I’ve been shot down in flames enough times to know it’s a “thing”, but I just don’t get it. It’s “dead” (and I mean that in the nicest possible way) software for a machine that was discontinued decades ago. So what if they have Windows versions? Sue the @!#?@! out of people who pirate the Windows versions if you like, fill yer boots… but I just don’t see why people (both users and houses) have any issue with an unfortunately small handful of people swapping discs. I had a really, really really full-on disagreement once about it with Dave who used to run APDL, and to sum it up even he couldn’t justify his standpoint beyond “it’s just wrong” and, “a few people might still get a tuppence or two every now and then, perhaps”. It’s just weird, you don’t see this in any other retro computing scene that I know of. I love the Archimedes, and I wish people didn’t have to resort to buying overpriced and usually broken games on eBay (hello xjtf), or having to sneak and slither in secrecy like some kind of spycats. I’d be curious to hear anyone else’s views - rant over, happy new year

[danielj]

As a forum admin dealing with "cease and desists" even if they have very little (if any) legal leg to stand on is a right pain in the bum. These are more likely to occur for 32 bit software than 8 bit as there is enough of the 32bit community left that are still trying to eek a living from it commercially.

There is at least one massive archive of most stuff which isn't very hard to find.

[iomanoid]

I know, but that’s my whole point, it shouldn’t even be happening. Not for RISC OS 2/3 stuff. There can’t be anyone making more than a fiver a year from that by now. Later stuff, RISC PC things, I can - kinda - understand. But the retro scene should be something that cherishes, embraces and happily shares this stuff - not penny pinching and lawyering up over peanuts. You don’t get this in the 8-bit scene at all, but you also don’t get it in the Amiga, ST and compatriot circles. Somehow there’s always been this slightly bitter edge to certain Acorn people, right from the start - I don’t get it, but it surely must be about time for it to stop.

Sorry guys - I just got “triggered” (how I hate that word, lol) by this post.

As you were

[danielj]

but you also don’t get it in the Amiga, ST and compatriot circles.

I think you probably know my thinking on the rest of your post but this -> you absolutely do get it with the whole "Software Preservation Society" lot - they sit there ingesting discs like nobody's business but don't actually make the archived software available. Added to that you have to essentially buy (with hard cash) into their architecture to submit discs to be preserved at which point they vanish into the void to all intents and purposes (I believe you get an IPF image of things you've submitted as and when they get around to converting it to one). And you can add into that the whole kerfuffle around Kickstart/Workbench

This probably needs a separate thread...

[iomanoid]

This probably needs a separate thread...

No, if we hide it in threads like this, they’ll never find us….

[BeebMaster]

I have the "demo" version, the readme says the save/load option isn't available but I don't know if it's the full game otherwise.

[philpem]

I think you probably know my thinking on the rest of your post but this -> you absolutely do get it with the whole "Software Preservation Society" lot

You could probably make the same argument about any software preservation project... they all follow a similar model of taking discs from people (donated or borrowed), imaging them, and sending the images back to the owner of said discs. Fact is it's the only reasonably-legal way of doing it (that I know of), because at that point all you're offering is a data recovery service.
The way those images get out is people who used the service uploading the images to an FTP site ... at this point I think the TOSEC collection of SPS/CAPS images for the Amiga is something like 99% complete with only a handful of missing images... which will almost undoubtedly be games of the "only 5 copies of this were ever sold, at an Amiga club meeting in some lightly-populated town, by the original developer, in March 1993" sort.

The other sad fact (and the elephant in the room) is that many of the early RISC OS software developers will have by now retired or sadly departed. Where companies went under, their intellectual property will revert to the Crown; where they were bought out, there may be nobody left at the company who even knows what they own... and if nobody knows for certain that they own it, you can bet the directors won't be willing to put their neck on the block by writing a permission note...

Fair point about RISC OS software pricing though -- That's not to say I begrudge current RISC OS developers for charging a fair price on software still being developed (and it's up to them to decide what that is) ... but they might well sell more copies and pick up a few more users if the RISC OS version were in "impulse buy" territory. I picked up my copy of Font Directory back when Adrian Look was selling it off for what was the price of a few beers a few years ago -- easy sale there. But if he'd asked for £45 or more, I probably wouldn't have bothered.

Sad fact is there are other demands on my limited time and finances these days, and I have to be picky what I spend my hobby notes on... which reminds me, I need to replace the oven this year.


Back on topic, I did some digging into the fate of Sherston Software and my notes are somewhere on the Stardot Discord. They ended up in the hands of a company which did online learning - but I think even they've evaporated or been bought out. I'd heard mumblings that the Sherston development contracts reverted back to the original developers after a set period of time, but you'd need to find someone who kept a copy of their 1990s Sherston contract to find out for sure...

Crystal Rainforest specifically, my hazy memory tells me Sherston did a Windows port but I've never seen a copy for sale.

[castlevarich]

Daniel & Phil,
The site licenced version does not seem encumbered.
The copy I have is licensed to somebody I know so I am going to have to think about that a bit.

Is there somebody here who is actively collecting and archiving RISC OS educational software?
I had half a dozen RISC PCs that were given to me when they stopped being loaned out, they have a decently large collection of special needs and other education software on them. I have given most of them away now but my kids still have one. I would be happy to zip up the whole drive in any manor suggested and put it some where to be scurried off with & I never want to hear about it again

Alan

Dear Alan
I am a former adult lecturer, who at one time also had a room full of RiscPCs to look after, before a certain American came along and wiped us out.

I am currently trying to get as much 1990s vintage educational software as possible working on RPCEmu, for a friend's six year old daughter.

I'm getting the usual problems - software that is pre-StrongARM or won't run without a key disk.

Would you let me have a list of what educational/special needs software you've got.

Thanks

Jon Robinson, Leeds

[philpem]

I am a former adult lecturer, who at one time also had a room full of RiscPCs to look after, before a certain American came along and wiped us out.

I am currently trying to get as much 1990s vintage educational software as possible working on RPCEmu, for a friend's six year old daughter.

I'm getting the usual problems - software that is pre-StrongARM or won't run without a key disk.

Would you let me have a list of what educational/special needs software you've got.

Thanks

Jon Robinson, Leeds

Hi Jon,

There's a lot of stuff on the JASPP Archimedes Software Preservation Project (www.jaspp.org.uk) which you might find of interest. That's run by another Jon -- Jon Abbott -- who operates by tracking down game authors and publishers and getting permission to re-release them online for free. The image files work with a program called ADFFS which emulates a floppy drive and applies patches to the games as they load.

Other places you could look are www.archive.org - search for "RISC OS", "acorn archimedes" or similar and select "software" on the left hand side of the search results. There's an absolute treasure trove there. From vague and hazy memory there are also archives of the Cybervillage and ARCADE BBS file archives on there, organised under the FTP site names.

Finally there's www.arcarc.nl which is a bit of a mishmash of installed-and-zipped-up software and original disc images, free and commercial, though I have no idea about the legalities. I guess it's "abandonware" ... still, better than nothing, but if you want to stay on the right side of the law it might be best to only look at the "(FR)" (free) and "(PD)" (public domain/freeware) files.

For running pre-StrongARM software, you may have better luck running it under Arculator. Where RPCEmu emulates a RISC PC, Arculator emulates an Archimedes or A-series machine.
If you check over in the Arculator 2.2 release thread, I've posted a source-code patch which allows it to run The Crystal Rainforest and possibly other Sherston titles. This would require that you have HFEv3 format disk images made from legitimate disks. You'll need to apply the patch then recompile Arculator. Most other games won't need the patch - I can only say for certain that Sherston titles need it.

I'm also in Leeds - if you still have any disks squirreled away from your time as a lecturer that you want to use, I can image them for you.

Cheers
Phil

[castlevarich]

Dear Phil

If you let me have your direct email address in a dsiguised form like something<AT>wherever<dot> something else,
I can send you StrongARM patches for nearly all the Sherston titles.

Usuually the StrongARM patch just replaces the sound player with a StrongARM version.

I really want to get stuff working on RPCEmu, as it's for a six year old girl, and I don't want her having to
use two emulators and be mounting floppy disk images to get stuff to work.

Regards

Jon

[danielj]

Jon

I've enabled your access to private messages.

[philpem]

If you let me have your direct email address in a dsiguised form like something<AT>wherever<dot> something else,
I can send you StrongARM patches for nearly all the Sherston titles.

Hi Jon,

philpem<at>philpem<dot>me.uk works - or you can private message me on here and I'll send you a clickable link

If they're just patches, you could also upload them here as attachments - the assumption being anyone would need a full copy to make use of them.
I expect they'd be useful to others too

Cheers
Phil.