ADFFS freezing after updates

[soviet]

Hi currently experiencing an issue trying to play games using adffs.
The system in question is a RiscPC strongarm and have riscos 4.02 in rom.
Like always i have opened packman and when i check all updates and updated all packages on my system.
But after this ADFSS don't work anymore when i try to run the software i hear the floppy drive reading and then the system will freeze .
The rest of the software seems to be fine, i have downloaded older versions of ADFSS but the same happens in all of them.

Maybe some package that i update caused some kind of bug maybe someone have this issue before ?.

[sirbod]

If I understand correctly, the games were working until you updated all packages, now they all hang? Could you name a few games you've tried that worked previously and if you downloaded them via PackMan?

I know I've fixed a lot of bugs that were breaking games on 3.x/4.x recently in the 2.73 beta, but I'm not sure updating will help in this situation. As you have a StrongARM you probably don't want to update to 2.73 beta as I've yet to implement to cache cleaning at VSync.

ADFFS doesn't really have any dependencies other than ZLib. I know ZLib on RISC OS 4.x has some bugs that mean it needs replacing with the ROOL version, 2.73 now does that automatically but I expect you've already RMKilled ZLib if you had it working previously.

Games obviously have dependencies on things like CLib, but that wouldn't get updated via PackMan.

[soviet]

Hi the issue is not that the games hang i don't get to that point.
When i run ADFFS i can hear the floppy drive read and then riscos freeze can't even move the mouse pointer.

And yes this happened after i updated all packages in packman when i performed the update i just allow all of them and don't checked was what updating.

Tried running older ADFFS versions from the website but the same issue happens.

[sirbod]

Go into the !ADFFS directory and try loading ADFFS550 manually to see if it hangs. If it doesn't hang, try loading ADFFSFiler.

[soviet]

Tested this and when try to load ADFFS550 i get the hang.

[Daveo]

I had it after a system lockup and had to restore my System directory from a backup, which fixed the hanging issue.

Also, make sure you're using the right ADFFSFiler version. It's inside !ADFFS and the version that comes with ADFFS v2.72 has to be replaced by v2.73 of ADFFSFiler if using RiscOS 4.39, not sure if same applies to RiscOS 4.02.

Here's the link to the download of ADFFSFiler v2.73.

[sirbod]

ADFFS does a lot of things when it starts up, but reinitialising ADFS is the very last thing.

Try loading ADFFS after a SHIFT-BREAK, just to make sure it loads without !Boot running, then you'll have to start pulling files out of !Boot until you figure out which one ADFFS doesn't play well with.

I'd start by pulling all the files from PostDesk, then any sound Modules being loaded during the boot sequence.

[soviet]

Took me a wile but after booting holding shift so no extensions are loaded, the same happen after running adffs the system will freeze
Other software seem to run perfectly fine, but adffs don't want to work.
Also updated everything again using the package manager and adffs to 2.73.
Btu the same issue....
Completely stuck here, hope i don't have to format and loose all i have configured.

[sirbod]

I actually told you incorrect information previously. On RISC OS 4, it's ADFFS400 you need to load. Could you please try loading that after a SHIFT-BOOT, from the Supervisor prompt and see if it still hangs after the floppy reinitialised.

Do you have any hardware attached that might complain if ADFS is reinitialised?

[rodders]

I'm getting this freeze too. I tried running ADFFS400 after a Shift-Break but it still locks up.
Anyone found a fix?

[rodders]

By uninstalling and reinstalling ADFFS I got it working again. It probably got corrupted after I tried to run Acheton and that froze, needing a hard reset.

[sirbod]

By uninstalling and reinstalling ADFFS I got it working again. It probably got corrupted after I tried to run Acheton and that froze, needing a hard reset.

Did you run Acheton directly from the floppy or via Boot floppy, or was it the packaged version via PackMan?

If I remember correctly, if it's run directly it messes with the IRQ vector and causes HD writes to mess up and corrupt the HD. Avoid running any TOPOLOGIKA titles directly if you have an HD fitted.

I went though all of their titles and "corrected" the code in the ADFFS Boot scripts. The packaged versions do the same and I believe the packages are all RO3.1x compatible.

[rodders]

Did you run Acheton directly from the floppy or via Boot floppy, or was it the packaged version via PackMan?

It was the packaged version from Packman.
I installed Packman and added the Jaspp source and then used it to install ADFFS and Acheton & Kingdom of Hamil.
I then ran !ADFFS followed by !AchetnHam.
It displayed the menu screen and I clicked A for Acheton. When it got to the Intro page with the scroll it froze. I had to switch off and reboot.
When I tried to run !ADFFS again it buzzed the floppy drive and then froze riscos.

[sirbod]

It was the packaged version from Packman.

Thanks for the info, I'll check the package and see if I can recreate the issue.

Could you please confirm what model of machine and processor were you using and what filesystem was the game installed on?

[rodders]

It was the packaged version from Packman.

Thanks for the info, I'll check the package and see if I can recreate the issue.

Could you please confirm what model of machine and processor were you using and what filesystem was the game installed on?

I'm using a RiscPC with Iss.3 motherboard, StrongArm Processor, 64MB RAM, 486DX PC Card.
I had another go, downloading an adf file of Acheton and Kingdom of Hamil and ran it via Boot Floppy and it worked OK... Until i rebooted and ADFFS would freeze again. I tried uninstalling and re-installing ADFFS from packman but that didn't fix it this time. Clearly something is corrupted outside the ADFFS install.
One curious thing to note: with ADFFS and Acheton installed via packman, I can't uninstall ADFFS without it uninstalling Acheton as well.
When ADFFS was working I also tried The Adventure Collection and Lemmings! via packman. The adventure collection froze the machine, Lemmings! gave me a black screen (frozen).
Hope this is helpful info.

[rodders]

Oh and filesystem is ADFS and RISCOS 4.04

[sirbod]

I then ran !ADFFS followed by !AchetnHam.
It displayed the menu screen and I clicked A for Acheton. When it got to the Intro page with the scroll it froze. I had to switch off and reboot.

I can confirm there is a problem with the script for Acheton, I'll need to update the packages to correct it.

In the meantime, The Adventures Classic collection version is correct, so try that package instead. There is however a problem with the adventures on Disc 1, so avoid running them until I've figured out the issue and updated the package.

I had another go, downloading an adf file of Acheton and Kingdom of Hamil and ran it via Boot Floppy and it worked OK... Until i rebooted and ADFFS would freeze again

If you used an ADF, Boot Floppy will have just run !Boot, so I'm surprised it actually ran at all.

I tried uninstalling and re-installing ADFFS from packman but that didn't fix it this time. Clearly something is corrupted outside the ADFFS install.

It's possibly corrupt something on your HD or the floppy image. As I mentioned in my previous post "Avoid running any TOPOLOGIKA titles directly" - Boot floppy on an ADF would have run the game directly.

with ADFFS and Acheton installed via packman, I can't uninstall ADFFS without it uninstalling Acheton as well.

!ADFFS is a dependency application, so PackMan will not let you uninstall it without also uninstalling everything that is dependent on it. I don't recall if PackMan support re-install, so download the ADFFS ZIP, delete your existing install and extract from the ZIP.

When ADFFS was working I also tried The Adventure Collection and Lemmings! via packman. The adventure collection froze the machine, Lemmings! gave me a black screen (frozen).

The Adventure Collection (via PackMan) worked for me under RO4, but Lemmings does hang on a black screen. Lemmings works under RO3.71 and softloaded RO5.29, so I suspect it might not be compatible with RO4 if it expects the screen memory to be a specific size - it's something I can't fix I'm afraid. RO4 and RO6 are best avoided for gaming I'm afraid.

[rodders]

If you used an ADF, Boot Floppy will have just run !Boot, so I'm surprised it actually ran at all.

quite right, it did just boot and then I had to run the game.

It's possibly corrupt something on your HD or the floppy image. As I mentioned in my previous post "Avoid running any TOPOLOGIKA titles directly" -
Boot floppy on an ADF would have run the game directly.

Ah! I shouldn't have done that then - any idea what it could have corrupted?

!ADFFS is a dependency application, so PackMan will not let you uninstall it without also uninstalling everything that is dependent on it. I don't recall if PackMan support re-install, so download the ADFFS ZIP, delete your existing install and extract from the ZIP.

I uninstalled using Packman, maybe it didn't clean everything before I reinstalled. Does ADFFS write anywhere outside itself? I'll try the zip

The Adventure Collection (via PackMan) worked for me under RO4, but Lemmings does hang on a black screen. Lemmings works under RO3.71 and softloaded RO5.29, so I suspect it might not be compatible with RO4 if it expects the screen memory to be a specific size - it's something I can't fix I'm afraid. RO4 and RO6 are best avoided for gaming I'm afraid.

I'll give The Adventure Collection another go, isn't it dependent on ADFFS though? (sorry to be such a noob). I hear you about R04 and R06, I just backed out of R06 as things didn't work but since I have RO4.04 ROMs there's not much more I can do. (Unless its possible to install RO3.7 over RO4.04 ROMs

[sirbod]

Ah! I shouldn't have done that then - any idea what it could have corrupted?

It could have been anything, but possibly the Map (*CheckMap to check it). The protection uses IRQ mode, which causes any Disk activity to halt mid-process and invariably causes a system lock when HD IRQ aren't serviced.

Does ADFFS write anywhere outside itself? I'll try the zip

No, it's fully self-contained. Temp files are also created within the !ADFFS folder, so deleting the !ADFFS folder and replacing with the contents of the ZIP is all that's required to reset it.

I'll give The Adventure Collection another go, isn't it dependent on ADFFS though?

Yes, it's dependent on ADFFS.

I hear you about R04 and R06, I just backed out of R06 as things didn't work but since I have RO4.04 ROMs there's not much more I can do. (Unless its possible to install RO3.7 over RO4.04 ROMs

I don't think softload lets you downgrade the OS, but you could softload 5. If you hold SHIFT so it doesn't run !Boot, you can avoid having to merge or mess with your exiting !Boot. *Desktop then manually run !ADFFS and then the game. Game compatibility will vary, so it's not a magic fix.

If you have a Pi use that with RISC OS 5.28 as more games run on that than do on any legacy systems/OS versions.

[IanJeffray]

RO4 and RO6 are best avoided for gaming I'm afraid.

I just backed out of R06 as things didn't work

I'd be interested to know more detail exactly why RO4 and RO6 are "best avoided" and what "didn't work". I run 4.39 and 6.20 variously here and wouldn't suggest anyone run anything less on a RiscPC.

[sirbod]

I'd be interested to know more detail exactly why RO4 and RO6 are "best avoided" and what "didn't work". I run 4.39 and 6.20 variously here and wouldn't suggest anyone run anything less on a RiscPC.

Firstly, there were fundamental changes to the way the OS handles screen memory that is incompatible with most early games. Essentially screen memory went from being mapped in as 4KB pages to being mapped in as 1MB chunks and the order of the screens within that chunk reversed.

Secondly, "Chocolate". The OS branched into Vanilla and Chocolate flavours, RO3/RO5* are Vanilla, RO4/RO6 are Chocolate. Chocolate enables caching of screen memory, which does speed up the WIMP very nicely but causes all sorts of problems for games.

In the last ADFFS update, I spent many, many months working out how to resolve the visual issues caused by enabling caching on screen memory. My whiteboard still has all the low-level hackery I had to implement to mostly resolve it...I'll have to take a photo for posterity. Things like monitoring IRQ, monitoring various OS calls and examining writes to MEMC registers.

Those two are the main that impact games, but there are other less noticeable changes. RO4 is the point at which RISC OS distanced itself from the past and tried to move more towards a more "serious work" / application centric type OS. The side-effect being many games became unplayable.

* recent RO5 might be a variant of Chocolate, memory is a little hazy but I do recall discussing it several years ago. ADFFS takes over GraphicsV (the graphics driver) under RO5 and does cache screen memory, handling cache cleaning within the blitter.

[sirbod]

I then ran !ADFFS followed by !AchetnHam.
It displayed the menu screen and I clicked A for Acheton. When it got to the Intro page with the scroll it froze. I had to switch off and reboot.

I can confirm there is a problem with the script for Acheton, I'll need to update the packages to correct it.

In the meantime, The Adventures Classic collection version is correct, so try that package instead. There is however a problem with the adventures on Disc 1, so avoid running them until I've figured out the issue and updated the package.

It's going to be a while before I update the base ADFFS package, so download the updated obey.zip and manually replace the copy in !ADFFS. So long as you're then using the PackMan sourced copies of Acheton or Adventures, classic collection you'll be using the updated scripts.

I've corrected the script for Acheton and have also made it backward compatible to ARM3. I've also diagnosed and resolved the issue with disc 1 where it would hang when prompting for SHIFT to continue.

I've tested both on a Pi3 and emulated RiscPC SA RO4.02.

I have noticed a problem on RO4 where the WIMP crashes when the games return to it - that might take a while to diagnose, so reboot instead of quitting via "quit".

[rodders]

Downloaded and replaced the obey.zip and Acheton seems to work now.
I tried to save but when I gave it a name it froze on me. I wasn't sure where it would save to, presumably not a floppy.
How do you save the game?

[sirbod]

I tried to save but when I gave it a name it froze on me. I wasn't sure where it would save to, presumably not a floppy.
How do you save the game?

You can save?

Saving as-is will fail as the mounted floppy is read-only to preserve the protection. It might need a blank ADF mounted, or it might be possible to HD install it. I'll have to read the manual and come back to you on that one.

I will have to check their other adventures as they probably suffer the same issue.

[sirbod]

How do you save the game?

To save, enter the full path when prompted for the filename, for example:

Code: Select all

SAVE
Insert save game disc

Save file
hostfs::0.$.saves.Acheton

[rodders]

Thanks sirbod I'll give that a whirl.

[rodders]

Tried lots of variations (after creating the directory 'saves'):

• hostfs::0.$.saves.Acheton

• hostfs::4.$.saves.Acheton

• adfs::0.$.saves.Acheton

All of them froze, except:

• adfs::4.$.saves.Acheton

Which saved and restored fine.

[IanJeffray]

Tried lots of variations (after creating the directory 'saves'):

• hostfs::0.$.saves.Acheton

• hostfs::4.$.saves.Acheton

HostFS doesn't have drive numbers. HostFS::HostFS.$.whatever should work.

[sirbod]

HostFS doesn't have drive numbers.

That's not strictly true, it depends on the FS implementation. There's no reason why a HostFS can't support multiple drives pointed at different root directories - it's just not been implemented by anyone yet.

Arculator and RPCEmu do not support drive numbers (I've often wondered why that is, but never looked at the code). Red Squirrel does support a drive number although only drive 0. Not sure on other emulators as I've not tried them.

[IanJeffray]

HostFS doesn't have drive numbers.

That's not strictly true, it depends on the FS implementation. There's no reason why a HostFS can't support multiple drives pointed at different root directories - it's just not been implemented by anyone yet.

I think that's a silly/useless statement. I'm not sure what your point is. HostFS does not CURRENTLY support drive numbers. Whether or not it COULD be implemented in future is irrelevant.