A new MENU system for MMC/Gotek

[hoglet]

Thanks for the suggestion...unfortunately didn't work for me. I also tried *FX 230 which I read toggles "normal ESCAPE key action" but that didn't work either.

Try:

Code: Select all

*FX 229,0

Dave

[jpagen]

Thanks for the suggestion...unfortunately didn't work for me. I also tried *FX 230 which I read toggles "normal ESCAPE key action" but that didn't work either.

Try:

Code: Select all

*FX 229,0

Dave

That didn't work either but thanks for the suggestion!

[tricky]

I'll see if I can fix it, but I might have added it to the !BOOT, or rather the __001__ file which is the renamed !BOOT for each disc. If so, it was a request but I can't remember from whom. If that is the case, I can add a command line option to do it/not do it.
I want to go back and fix the limit of 31 files on a disc and maybe add support for *RUNning !BOOT.

[jpagen]

I'll see if I can fix it, but I might have added it to the !BOOT, or rather the __001__ file which is the renamed !BOOT for each disc. If so, it was a request but I can't remember from whom. If that is the case, I can add a command line option to do it/not do it.
I want to go back and fix the limit of 31 files on a disc and maybe add support for *RUNning !BOOT.

That would be great! Thank you.

[tricky]

I don't usually try to be OS friendly as I'm just going to kick it out anyway, but I tried with the menu, so I do a few *FX calls:
*FX 4,1 ; makes the cursor and copy keys just return ordinary key codes, restore with *FX 4,0
*FX 11,25 ; set keyboard auto repeat delay to 25, restore to the default with *FX 11,32
*FX 12,15 ; set keyboard auto repeat rate to 15, restore to the default with *FX 12,8
*FX 190,40 ; On a B+, make the cursor key return key codes, restore with *FX 190,0 - I think!
*FX 229,1 ; makes the ESCAPE key return a keycode, restore with *FX 229,0
I'll see about adding the default into the beginning of each !BOOT, but some may be too big

[jpagen]

I don't usually try to be OS friendly as I'm just going to kick it out anyway, but I tried with the menu, so I do a few *FX calls:
*FX 4,1 ; makes the cursor and copy keys just return ordinary key codes, restore with *FX 4,0
*FX 11,25 ; set keyboard auto repeat delay to 25, restore to the default with *FX 11,32
*FX 12,15 ; set keyboard auto repeat rate to 15, restore to the default with *FX 12,8
*FX 190,40 ; On a B+, make the cursor key return key codes, restore with *FX 190,0 - I think!
*FX 229,1 ; makes the ESCAPE key return a keycode, restore with *FX 229,0
I'll see about adding the default into the beginning of each !BOOT, but some may be too big

Thanks for the list. I can add these as necessary to the applicable boot file(renamed to ---[disc number in hex]---) on ssd's which rely on the 'normal' operation of the ESC and Copy/Cursor keys

[tricky]

You should just be able to put them in the original. SSD and they will get copies over.

[tricky]

I've been looking at the discs that fail to be added to my menu:

Code: Select all

game_file -1 pling_boot 30 disc_boot  3 file_count 31 Can't currently handle GAMEIMG/DISCS/1596/DISC089-QUESTIONOFSPORT.SSD
game_file -1 pling_boot 30 disc_boot  3 file_count 31 Can't currently handle GAMEIMG/DISCS/3221/DISC144-ANSWERBACKSPORTQUIZEDIT.SSD
game_file -1 pling_boot -1 disc_boot  1 file_count  3 Can't currently handle GAMEIMG/DISCS/4309/DISC999-AVONTUURINEGYPTE.PNG
game_file -1 pling_boot -1 disc_boot  0 file_count 13 Can't currently handle GAMEIMG/DISCS/3087/DISC999-BLADEDANCER.ZIP
game_file -1 pling_boot 30 disc_boot  3 file_count 31 Can't currently handle GAMEIMG/DISCS/3169/DISC999-BOOKOFLISTINGSPART1.DSD
game_file -1 pling_boot 30 disc_boot  3 file_count 31 Can't currently handle GAMEIMG/DISCS/3170/DISC999-BOOKOFLISTINGSPART2.DSD
Changing GAMEIMG/DISCS/3222/DISC999-BYFAIRMEANSORFOUL128K.SSD from OPT 2 to 3
Failed to open:                                             Cargo [D:\DATA\BBC\Gotek\bbcmicro_parser\TrickyMenu] GAMEIMG/DISCS/3002/CARGOBASICINSTRUCTIONS.TXT
game_file -1 pling_boot -1 disc_boot  0 file_count  2 Can't currently handle GAMEIMG/DISCS/2297/DISC999-CHARTCHALLENGEDATABASEDISC1.SSD
game_file -1 pling_boot -1 disc_boot  0 file_count  2 Can't currently handle GAMEIMG/DISCS/2298/DISC999-CHARTCHALLENGEDATABASEDISC2.SSD
game_file -1 pling_boot -1 disc_boot  0 file_count  2 Can't currently handle GAMEIMG/DISCS/2299/DISC999-CHARTCHALLENGEDATABASEDISC3.SSD
game_file -1 pling_boot -1 disc_boot  0 file_count  2 Can't currently handle GAMEIMG/DISCS/2300/DISC999-CHARTCHALLENGEDATABASEDISC4.SSD
Failed to open:                                     Chuckie Egg 2 [D:\DATA\BBC\Gotek\bbcmicro_parser\TrickyMenu] ) (hack)
Changing GAMEIMG/DISCS/1177/DISC999-CIRCUSGAMES.SSD from OPT 2 to 3
game_file -1 pling_boot 30 disc_boot  3 file_count 31 Can't currently handle GAMEIMG/DISCS/2065/DISC168-CROSSWORDSSTD.SSD
Failed to open:                Doctor Who And The Mines Of Terror [D:\DATA\BBC\Gotek\bbcmicro_parser\TrickyMenu] GAMEIMG/DISCS/473/DOCTORWHOANDTHEMINESOFTERROR-SCANS.ZIP
game_file -1 pling_boot  1 disc_boot  3 file_count 31 Can't currently handle GAMEIMG/DISCS/3470/DISC999-DUNJUNZBONES.SSD
Changing GAMEIMG/DISCS/3471/DISC999-ELITESNG45.SSD from OPT 2 to 3
game_file -1 pling_boot 29 disc_boot  3 file_count 31 Can't currently handle GAMEIMG/DISCS/2088/DISC999-ELITEMASTERANDTUBEENHANCED.SSD
game_file -1 pling_boot  3 disc_boot  3 file_count 31 Can't currently handle GAMEIMG/DISCS/2803/DISC999-ELITEA.SSD
game_file -1 pling_boot -1 disc_boot  1 file_count  1 Can't currently handle GAMEIMG/DISCS/4072/EXPLORER-DRAGONSOFT-NOV91.ZIP
game_file -1 pling_boot -1 disc_boot  0 file_count 21 Can't currently handle GAMEIMG/DISCS/3231/DISC999-FACTFILE500ARITHMETIC.SSD
game_file -1 pling_boot -1 disc_boot  0 file_count 20 Can't currently handle GAMEIMG/DISCS/3226/DISC999-FACTFILE500ENGLISHWORDS.SSD
game_file -1 pling_boot -1 disc_boot  0 file_count 20 Can't currently handle GAMEIMG/DISCS/3232/DISC999-FACTFILE500FIRSTAID.SSD
game_file -1 pling_boot -1 disc_boot  0 file_count 20 Can't currently handle GAMEIMG/DISCS/3233/DISC999-FACTFILE500GENERALSCIENCE.SSD
game_file -1 pling_boot -1 disc_boot  0 file_count 20 Can't currently handle GAMEIMG/DISCS/3234/DISC999-FACTFILE500JUNIORGENERALKNOWLEDGE.SSD
game_file -1 pling_boot -1 disc_boot  0 file_count 20 Can't currently handle GAMEIMG/DISCS/3235/DISC999-FACTFILE500KNOWENGLAND.SSD
game_file -1 pling_boot -1 disc_boot  0 file_count 20 Can't currently handle GAMEIMG/DISCS/3236/DISC999-FACTFILE500NATURALHISTORY.SSD
game_file -1 pling_boot -1 disc_boot  0 file_count 20 Can't currently handle GAMEIMG/DISCS/3237/DISC999-FACTFILE500SENIORGENERALKNOWLEDGE.SSD
game_file -1 pling_boot -1 disc_boot  0 file_count 21 Can't currently handle GAMEIMG/DISCS/3238/DISC999-FACTFILE500SPELLING.SSD
game_file -1 pling_boot -1 disc_boot  0 file_count 20 Can't currently handle GAMEIMG/DISCS/3239/DISC999-FACTFILE500SUPERSPORTS.SSD
game_file -1 pling_boot -1 disc_boot  0 file_count 20 Can't currently handle GAMEIMG/DISCS/3240/DISC999-FACTFILE500WORLDGEOGRAPHY.SSD
game_file -1 pling_boot 24 disc_boot  2 file_count 31 Can't currently handle GAMEIMG/DISCS/2551/DISC999-GNOMERANGERSTD.SSD
game_file -1 pling_boot -1 disc_boot  0 file_count 29 Can't currently handle GAMEIMG/DISCS/2552/DISC999-GNOMERANGERPICTUREDISC.SSD
game_file -1 pling_boot 30 disc_boot  3 file_count 31 Can't currently handle GAMEIMG/DISCS/2125/DISC999-HEADCOACHDELUXE.SSD
game_file -1 pling_boot -1 disc_boot  1 file_count  3 Can't currently handle GAMEIMG/DISCS/4311/DISC999-HEERVANDEDUISTERNIS.PNG
game_file -1 pling_boot 30 disc_boot  3 file_count 31 Can't currently handle GAMEIMG/DISCS/2308/DISC999-HISTORYQUIZ.DSD
game_file -1 pling_boot 24 disc_boot  2 file_count 31 Can't currently handle GAMEIMG/DISCS/2132/DISC999-INGRIDSBACK.SSD
game_file -1 pling_boot -1 disc_boot  0 file_count 29 Can't currently handle GAMEIMG/DISCS/2294/DISC999-INGRIDSBACKPICTUREDISC.SSD
game_file -1 pling_boot 24 disc_boot  2 file_count 31 Can't currently handle GAMEIMG/DISCS/3291/DISC999-KNIGHTORCSTD.SSD
game_file -1 pling_boot -1 disc_boot  0 file_count 29 Can't currently handle GAMEIMG/DISCS/3290/DISC999-KNIGHTORCPICTUREDISC.SSD
Changing GAMEIMG/DISCS/4172/DISC999-KNIGHTSOFCAMELOT.SSD from OPT 2 to 3
game_file -1 pling_boot 24 disc_boot  2 file_count 31 Can't currently handle GAMEIMG/DISCS/2553/DISC999-LANCELOTSTD.DSD
game_file -1 pling_boot  5 disc_boot  3 file_count 31 Can't currently handle GAMEIMG/DISCS/2155/DISC999-LONGFORGOTTENARABIA.DSD
game_file -1 pling_boot 30 disc_boot  3 file_count 31 Can't currently handle GAMEIMG/DISCS/1557/DISC087-MASTERBREAKD.SSD
game_file -1 pling_boot 30 disc_boot  3 file_count 31 Can't currently handle GAMEIMG/DISCS/2310/DISC999-MUSICQUIZ.DSD
game_file -1 pling_boot -1 disc_boot  3 file_count  0 Can't currently handle GAMEIMG/DISCS/4314/PD1.07C2023-04-10PRO.ADL
Changing GAMEIMG/DISCS/2195/DISC999-PUFF.SSD from OPT 2 to 3
game_file -1 pling_boot  5 disc_boot  3 file_count 31 Can't currently handle GAMEIMG/DISCS/2200/DISC999-REDBUTTONGAME.DSD
game_file -1 pling_boot 30 disc_boot  3 file_count 31 Can't currently handle GAMEIMG/DISCS/2313/DISC999-ROYALQUIZ.DSD
game_file -1 pling_boot -1 disc_boot  2 file_count  7 Can't currently handle GAMEIMG/DISCS/2554/DISC999-SCAPEGHOSTSTD.PNG
game_file -1 pling_boot -1 disc_boot  0 file_count 30 Can't currently handle GAMEIMG/DISCS/2346/DISC999-SCAPEGHOSTPICTUREDISC.SSD
game_file -1 pling_boot 30 disc_boot  3 file_count 31 Can't currently handle GAMEIMG/DISCS/2314/DISC999-SCIENCEFICTIONQUIZ.DSD
Changing GAMEIMG/DISCS/2230/DISC999-STIGOFTHEDUMP.SSD from OPT 2 to 3
Changing GAMEIMG/DISCS/3112/DISC999-STUNTCARRACERSTD.SSD from OPT 2 to 3
game_file -1 pling_boot -1 disc_boot  0 file_count 31 Can't currently handle GAMEIMG/DISCS/1473/DISC082-SUPERMANMANOFSTEEL.SSD
game_file -1 pling_boot  0 disc_boot  3 file_count 31 Can't currently handle GAMEIMG/DISCS/2958/DISC999-TIMESCROSSWORDSVOL1.DSD
game_file -1 pling_boot  0 disc_boot  3 file_count 31 Can't currently handle GAMEIMG/DISCS/2957/DISC999-TIMESJUBILEEPUZZLES.DSD
game_file -1 pling_boot  0 disc_boot  3 file_count 31 Can't currently handle GAMEIMG/DISCS/2315/DISC999-THEATREQUIZ.DSD
game_file -1 pling_boot 24 disc_boot  2 file_count 31 Can't currently handle GAMEIMG/DISCS/2343/DISC999-TIMEANDMAGIKTRILOGYSTD.DSD
game_file -1 pling_boot  0 disc_boot  3 file_count 31 Can't currently handle GAMEIMG/DISCS/3572/DISC999-TUTANKHAMUNSREVENGE.SSD
game_file -1 pling_boot -1 disc_boot  0 file_count 10 Can't currently handle GAMEIMG/DISCS/3918/DISC999-20XWORDS.DSD
Changing GAMEIMG/DISCS/2639/DISC999-MUXMAS94WHEREISFATHERCHRISTMAS.SSD from OPT 2 to 3
game_file -1 pling_boot  0 disc_boot  3 file_count 31 Can't currently handle GAMEIMG/DISCS/3574/DISC999-XORDESIGNER.SSD
game_file -1 pling_boot -1 disc_boot  0 file_count  0 Can't currently handle GAMEIMG/DISCS/4107/DISC999-BBC21.ADL

game_file is the catalogue index of the name that the new !BOOT replacement should have, needs to be -1, not found
pling_boot is the catalogue index of the !BOOT file, which needs to be found, not -1, to know what to boot
disc_boot is the disc OPT setting and needs to be 3, *EXEC !BOOT, to make the !BOOT file re-nameable and *EXECed by the menu
file_count is how many files are on the disc and needs to be less than 31 to allow the new !BOOT to be added to return to the original menu

I have added a new piece of code to support OPT 2 which adds a new !BOOT, renamed later, that *RUNs the old !BOOT, also renamed, which supports a few more discs; the "OPT 2 to 3" ones.

Most failing discs have ful catalogues, 31 files, and the solution here for those that *EXEC !BOOT would be to keep one of the replaced !BOOT files on the disc and append the new !BOOT, setting the disc to OPT 2 and telling the menu system to *EXEC !BOOT instead of the new name so that !BOOT would work both for *EXECing and *RUNning. This will be a bit fiddly and I haven't looked at it yet!

The other issues are not supporting disc images of formats: .PNG, .ZIP, .DSD and .ADL.
I could probably try unzipping the .ZIP and maybe convert the .ADL but the .PNG is probably a mistake!
I have been thinking about supporting .DSD so that the discs are next to each other and then always mounting two discs for MMC and if and discs are .DSDs, supporting a mix of .SSD and .DSD for GOTEKs. GOTEKs already make all discs double sided if there are too many discs, more than 511, to fit i the root of a GOTEK USB stick.

One simple addition would be to just add the unsupported discs to the end of the archive so that they are at least there for manual selection.

[tricky]

Was anyone else brave enough to try the GUI viewtopic.php?p=391126#p391126?
I know it is windows and there are a lot of non-windows people here!
I have attached an updated version of bbcmicro_parser.exe with the *RUNable !BOOT support as above.

[jpagen]

Was anyone else brave enough to try the GUI viewtopic.php?p=391126#p391126?
I know it is windows and there are a lot of non-windows people here!
I have attached an updated version of bbcmicro_parser.exe with the *RUNable !BOOT support as above.

Great, I have been using the GUI! I updated my existing images with *RUNable !BOOTs-renaming the file and creating a *EXECable !BOOT to run the old renamed !BOOT but that was only possible where the catalog was not full.
The menu is working great for me. The only issue I have are a few IMG files with extended catalogs such as Watford Electronics images but that's no big deal.

Thanks for the update.

[tricky]

...
Great, I have been using the GUI! I updated my existing images with *RUNable !BOOTs-renaming the file and creating a *EXECable !BOOT to run the old renamed !BOOT but that was only possible where the catalog was not full.

Sorry I didn't add it earlier!

...
The only issue I have are a few IMG files with extended catalogs such as Watford Electronics images but that's no big deal...

If they are flagged do not reorder, they *may* just work, but I haven't tried any and don't have any gotek beebs out at the moment.

[jpagen]

If they are flagged do not reorder, they *may* just work, but I haven't tried any and don't have any gotek beebs out at the moment.

I gave it a go but no luck. I forgot that they are also double density format which may be the reason! Thanks.

[tricky]

Yes, no double debit support, only standard tracks up to up 80. I didn't even know that DD discs were supported as .SSD.

[tricky]

It seems that Watford Electronics DFS does not work with my menu to auto swap discs, it prbably locks seeking to track 254.
Having a CoPro also seems to block the disc swap, does anyone have any idea why?
The menu has FF... load and exec addresses which seems to work file and the disc swap code is inside the menu, so it must be some difference in the way that the track seeking or reading/writing is happening/being intersepted.

[Zeb]

Interesting - will be taking a look at this!

Just curious, why do loads of people write Gotek in capitals? It's only the name of the Indian company that created the "Floppy Drive Emulator" (yes, that's what it's actually called) and GOTEK printed on the front is just their name. They used to have a proper website at www.gotek.in which now seems to be a resource centre.

[hoglet]

Hi Tricky,

I don't know if you spotted this thread, but it seems the versions of Acheton included in your Menu MMB files are broken. The versions on the old STH MMB archive, and on bbcmicro.co.uk work fine. I think the issue is Acheton accesses data in disc sectors directly using OSWORD &7F, and so just copying the files is not sufficient.

Dave

[DamoJay]

Hi Tricky,

Great to finally meet you at ABUG this weekend. Also thanks for all the work you do, especially the port of Moon Patrol (I know your still working on that).

I tried out the new release and these are the results using a RetroClinic 1770 Board:

With Watford DDFS 1.54T
-------------------------------
Boots up, but failes to change disc.

With Acorn DFS 226
------------------------
I have a dual drive, with the Gotec set to drive zero, and 5.25 set to 1.
Menu boots up, I select the game, the disk and tracks seem to go crackers and to the end... then my 5.25 lights up, the OLED on the gotec says "direct Access".
On pressing escape / break, my 5.25 has then been mapped to being drive 0. and the gotec still says Direct Access
on pressing Control Break - the gotec then selects the disc what the game was on.
On pressing shift break, the Gotec scanns and then correctly goes to the correct disc to then boot up the menu.

Hope this helps, and appreciate all the work you do on this.

thanks,

Damian.

[tricky]

Thanks for testing my latest code.
I don't know how drive 0 and 1 can get swapped, that should be a writing thing.
To change disc, the gotek has to sell to track 254, then pretend to write a sector with a magic string plus command and parameters, which in this case should swap the current disc.
After this, the menu swaps to drive 2 if it is using double sided disc images and needs to, then, finally *EXECs __FFF__ or whatever the game number is.

[tricky]

I'm thinking of adding -force_io_addr as a cmdline option to my menu creation tool so that all files not on "dont_reorder_disc" discs have the top two bits of the address set to make them load and execute on the IO processor (beeb), not the copro.

[tricky]

I have finished my first pass EXPERIMENTAL builds for discs that should work with a copro without disabling it even if the discs wouldn't normally.
This involves adding a *B.\r at the beginning if there wasn't one or replacing the existing *BASIC (or abvs).
Replacing the *B. with *FX234 0\r*B. to "read" the tube presence flag, but actually clear it, thanks hoglet
The BASIC will then be the one in the beeb and not the copro one so it will only access beeb memory.
It will also insert OSCLI("*D."): on the beginning of the last line so that the DFS will also be re-initialized without the tube.
This seems to work, but there are some !BOOT files that do other disc operations before the last line, so some won't.

Top post updated.

BASIC needs to be re-initialised early so that it is the same environment in the !BOOT as when whatever it runs runs.
Ideally *DISC would immediately follow *B., but experimentally, this makes it forget that it is reading !BOOT, with good reason.
Having the last line start with OSCLI("*D.") means that the last line has already been read and will continue to be valid.
A more advanced !BOOT reorganiser would probably move *B. to the top and anything disc related to the last line, but that is for another day.
None of this has had much testing and some none as I am recovering from an operation and feeling terrible but I couldn't watch any more TV!
There are some !BOOT files that it just gives up on:
Files with escape characters in them other than \r. (These look to be mastering mistakes)
Files where there isn't room to extend them without rearranging the original disc*.
Discs marked dont_reorder_disc in the comments (Only PoP I think).

There are two new options that control copro ignoring:
-force_io_addr - changes all load and execution addresses to be &3xxxx meaning that they should get loaded into IO processor (the beeb).
-add_copro_ignore - adds the *FX234 0 and the OSCLI("*D."):

Windows executable: https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/68zpv9ti ... verca&dl=0

* Some discs have invalid catalogues so files may be extended overwriting others, but this is very unlikely.

[flynnjs]

Ooh, nice. I will give this a go this afternoon.
No idea what I am doing but I will poke around and may be back here asking for help

[tricky]

Good luck

[mikeh_nz]

...\complete\ - everything on bbcmicro.co.uk the last time I grabbed it (quite a while ago now)

...\GOTEK.ZIP - DSKA0000.SSD or .DSD if more than 510 .SSD files required, max 510 .DSD files will fit in root directory.

Sorry if I’m being dense here….

The ..\complete\GOTEK.ZIP has 570 .DSD discs. But the above talks about a max of 510.

How should I reconcile these two seemingly incompatible things?

Cheers
Mike

[tricky]

Good question, I need to see if the gotek firmware supports a way of accessing them. Last time I checked, it only searched the root folder which is limited by the ancient dos file system.
You could try dropping them in a folder, but I haven't tried it.
I also found an unrelated issue with a local test of the experimental version last night.

[mikeh_nz]

Thanks.

You know, after posting

Sorry if I’m being dense here….

I realized I was setting myself up for some pretty good “single dense”, “double dense” comebacks!

Thanks Richard for the many contributions that you have made to the community…

[tricky]

Did you try copying them into a subdirectory?
I don't have any gotek beebs that I can get access to at the moment and can't find the answer on the flash flotty site.

[mikeh_nz]

I haven’t given it a go yet - I’m a “new gotek owner” and it’ll be a few weeks for the various cables to arrive.

I’ll try your curated set first, and then try the complete set and test out the sub dir idea.

(Otherwise it’s a case of dropping some disk images to bring it under 510 entries)

[tricky]

It could take a while to get through the "curated" list

[mikeh_nz]

I’m having problems getting the gotek to programmatically change drives.

I’m using a pretty empty bbc b (just the os, basic, and DFS roms)
Os 1.2
DFS 0.9E (with a 8271 controller)
(So page is at &1900)
FlashFloppy+ 3.42
Gotek SFRKC30.AT4.35

Gotek

Using the curated set of disks and its unchanged Ff.cfg

Unchanged FF config

Menu boots fine. Games load for games on initial disk.
Loading fails on games on other disks.

Not changing discs

Pressing Break and *. shows the DSKA0000.ssd contents

What do you think?

• Gotek flashfloppy firmware?
• Gotek hardware?
• Change DFS to 1.20?

Is there anyone out there running a very similar 8271 setup and have it working?
Eg. Can someone confirm that it works for them with DFS 0.9E and a 8271?

It’s likely the firmware or the DFS version methinks.

[mikeh_nz]

Another observation

Say I change to disk DSKA0288 and *Run !BOOT from there

The gotek’s oled display shows

• it seeking up to track 254
• The display changes from the disk name to showing “*Direct Access*”
• The display shows the same disk “DSKA0288”
• The track seeks back to 0 (where I think it *Runs !BOOT on what it thinks should be DSKA0000)
• and it loops back to the first step in this list

However, the weird thing is from the DSKA0000 menu - when it’s trying to change the disk, the gotek oled display just changes straight from track 8 (where it ends up after loading in the menu data) to track 0. There’s no seeking to track 254 going on