ICS Wizzo IDEFS for A5000/A4 (+A3020/A4000...) improves CF card support!

[steve3000]

I've just read through the ICS IDEFS user manual here: http://chrisacorns.computinghistory.org ... deAEd2.pdf

On pages 18/19 there is reference to 'Wizzo4' and 'Wizzo5' which seem to be implementations of ICS IDEFS for the A4 and A5000 respectively. I vaguely recall this being for sale in the 90's as a rare '5th column' ROM for these computers, which would boost performance through the built-in IDE interface, by using IDEFS to manage the Acorn interface, replacing the ADFS driver.

I wonder if this ICS Wizzo ROM may actually result in better compatibility with SD->IDE interfaces on the A5000/A4 - since IDEFS has no problems with newer SD->IDE interfaces, where ADFS fails. Although I realise if the limitation is in fact the Acorn IDE hardware itself rather than ADFS, then this won't help.

So the big question - does anyone have a Wizzo4 or Wizzo5 ROM installed on their A4/A5000?

[RobC]

I don't have it installed but I may have the ROM binary at home - I came across something marked "Wizzo" when looking for the ArcIn ROM image for Andy earlier in the week...

I'll have a look again tonight and will upload it if found.

EDIT: Found on here - as uploaded by DaveH!

[daveejhitchins]

I have a WIZZO EPROM labeled WIZZO 5 1994 3V12. I may have other versions on disc, however, won't be able to search for them until next week at the earliest!! It looks like Rob has already posted a later version (BE-APDL 95 WIZZO 4 3V22 - 512) from one of my earlier 'dumps'.

Dave H

[steve3000]

Thanks Rob and Dave!

Quite right, I suspect the earlier uploads you're referring to were from this thread: viewtopic.php?t=5388

Looks like a few versions of the Wizzo4 and Wizzo5 ROMs listed.

The A4 version (Wizzo4) seems to have the latest revision number, but I can't imagine why the A4 version would not work in the A5000 - since the Acorn IDE hardware is the same - unless the A4 version has some specific IDEFS battery management settings? Or maybe the A4 version just contains the standard Acorn A4 battery manager tools in addition to IDEFS?

[RobC]

I was wondering how this worked given that the A4 already has an extra ROM in place but that would make perfect sense. And a quick scan of the A4 Wizzo image shows that it does contain BatMgr.

I've got some spare 64KB EPROMS and would love to try this on my A4 but it isn't working at the moment. If I could get it working again with its colour screen and a CF HDD that would be brilliant.

[RobC]

Good news on this is that it does seem to improve on ADFS...

I tested a CF adapter with a 512MB CF card in my A4. The A4 is very sickly and only boots sometimes so this has been a very long process

The CF drive was recognised under ADFS (with the correct name) but accessing it gave a disc error.

However, under IDEFS, it works

I had to use the older, smaller (32KB) Wizzo ROM image as my A4 didn't like the 64KB EPROM I tried to use (M27512).

Next step is to dig out a 44pin SD card adapter and try that.

[steve3000]

The CF drive was recognised under ADFS (with the correct name) but accessing it gave a disc error.

However, under IDEFS, it works

This is excellent news, thanks for checking that Rob!

I really need to test the A5000 version, but lack of time, illness, working away from home and having no working Eprom programmer have all conspired against me so far...

I might just load the modules from floppy and see if that works! (this could also be a solution for A30x0/A4000's... Particularly if loaded from a floppy emulator like HxC...).

[RobC]

Hi Steve,

If you need an EPROM programmed, just PM me. I'm really pleased that you pointed me in the direction of Wizzo and so I'd be happy to pop one in the post FOC.

Investigated a bit further tonight - couldn't get it to work with a 2GB Kingston SD card either in a CF adapter or in the Sintech SD->IDE adapter.

However, I'm using the older version of IDEFS in the 32KB image (in a 27c256 EPROM) as I can't get my A4 to recognise the top half of the 64KB image in a 27512. I have tried moving the ROM size link even though it shouldn't be needed for a 28-pin EPROM. I even tried programming both halves of a 1Mbit EPROM and moving the link to the 32-pin position so I'm guessing it's a fault with my A4 (although A15 seems to be connected correctly so I'm not sure what is going on).

Good news is that the earlier version works brilliantly with CF cards and a cheapo CF adapter (although I've only tried two brands of CF card thus far). I've now set it up with a 4GB CF card with 4 499MB partitions (not sure if it'll handle more). This works perfectly and it's great to be able to use partitions on the built-in interface. I'll try to post a picture tomorrow...

Other good news is that my A4 seems to be behaving much better after a good soaking with contact cleaner and pcb cleaner. Next step is to try to fit a new socket for the keyboard connector - I might have a lead on a part that can act as a replacement for the original

[steve3000]

Good news is that the earlier version works brilliantly with CF cards and a cheapo CF adapter (although I've only tried two brands of CF card thus far). I've now set it up with a 4GB CF card with 4 499MB partitions (not sure if it'll handle more). This works perfectly and it's great to be able to use partitions on the built-in interface. I'll try to post a picture tomorrow...

Ooooh, this IS good news (and great to read you've made progress on getting your A4 to work again!)

Spurred on by this, I've found a spare 15 minutes and generated a floppy-disc based Wizzo IDEFS boot disc for the A5000 (attached below), which should also work on A4, and (very importantly) should also work on the A3020 and A4000 computers, which can't accept an extension ROM!

To use the Wizzo IDEFS boot disc - download the attached ZIP, decompress this using !SparkFS or !SparkPlug on your Archimedes to an ADFS floppy disc, and set the floppy to boot option 2 - press f12 and type:

Code: Select all

*ADFS
*Drive 0
*OPT 4,2

Now you need to configure your computer to boot from floppy and set it up to use IDEFS rather than ADFS. So press f12 and type:

Code: Select all

*Configure IDEDiscs 0
*Configure FileSystem ADFS
*Configure Drive 0
*Configure Boot

Then (with your newly created Wizzo boot disc in your floppy drive) reset your computer, watch the floppy drive come to life and see IDEFS load and detect your hard disc drive(s)! Because IDEFS and IDEFiler roms are so small, the floppy boot only takes about 3-4 seconds, so it is hardly noticable...

Hopefully this will now allow many more CF and SD->IDE adaptors to work through your Acorn IDE interface!

And, as Rob reports above, it should also allow you to partition your HDD (although only after a reformat - be careful!) using the ICS IDEFS tools. (Is there a link to these tools anywhere online? I can upload a ZIP at the weekend if not...)

[RobC]

Brilliant work! I'll have to try this out on my A3000 with Castle IDE interface too.

The ICS tools I used are on Chris's Acorns:
http://chrisacorns.computinghistory.org ... are.html#I

The formatting tool allows up to 8 partitions but the older version of the ROM in my A4 only recognised the first four. Maybe the later one will accept more?

[Zarchos]

Is there enough unused space in the RO 3.11 ROMs to add this Wizzo code ? Could it fit into a set of newly burnt RO roms ?

[danielj]

Is there enough unused space in the RO 3.11 ROMs to image this Wizzo code could fit into a set of newly burnt RO roms ?

This is a rather good idea. -> I've never really looked into "roll your own" ROMs for RiscOS - is there there any documentation about how they're laid out?

d.

[steve3000]

This is a rather good idea. -> I've never really looked into "roll your own" ROMs for RiscOS - is there there any documentation about how they're laid out?

I'm not sure if this has actually been done in the past by anyone, but I recall it's been talked about before. I don't believe there is any documentation on the ROM layout, although I would have thought the format shouldn't be too difficult to pull apart (there is probably a lot that can be learnt from referring to the ROOL sources here too). As long as the table of relocatable modules can be identified and enough space made available to add new modules to this without destroying any fixed-location code, then creating a modified RISC OS 3 ROM set should be quite possible. Burning the modified RISC OS 3 onto 4 x 27c040's or 2 x 27C800's (with suitable 42pin programmer?) would then be an option.

[steve3000]

Some great success using the floppy-boot Wizzo IDEFS on my A4000 - see below

Generic 2Gb CF card via adaptor in A4000:

Fails to work on ADFS:

But works perfectly using IDEFS:

More soon...

[danielj]

This is a rather good idea. -> I've never really looked into "roll your own" ROMs for RiscOS - is there there any documentation about how they're laid out?

I'm not sure if this has actually been done in the past by anyone, but I recall it's been talked about before. I don't believe there is any documentation on the ROM layout, although I would have thought the format shouldn't be too difficult to pull apart (there is probably a lot that can be learnt from referring to the ROOL sources here too). As long as the table of relocatable modules can be identified and enough space made available to add new modules to this without destroying any fixed-location code, then creating a modified RISC OS 3 ROM set should be quite possible. Burning the modified RISC OS 3 onto 4 x 27c040's or 2 x 27C800's (with suitable 42pin programmer?) would then be an option.

Hmm... The other option is to push it onto the ethernet card, if you have one, and then push the ethernet modules onto the HDD (they all get loaded into memory anyway, even if on ROM iirc?)

d.

[JonC]

This is a rather good idea. -> I've never really looked into "roll your own" ROMs for RiscOS - is there there any documentation about how they're laid out?

I'm not sure if this has actually been done in the past by anyone, but I recall it's been talked about before. I don't believe there is any documentation on the ROM layout, although I would have thought the format shouldn't be too difficult to pull apart (there is probably a lot that can be learnt from referring to the ROOL sources here too). As long as the table of relocatable modules can be identified and enough space made available to add new modules to this without destroying any fixed-location code, then creating a modified RISC OS 3 ROM set should be quite possible. Burning the modified RISC OS 3 onto 4 x 27c040's or 2 x 27C800's (with suitable 42pin programmer?) would then be an option.

You might only need to burn one rom, presumably the code you'd be changing isn't spread across all 4 (or 2)?

[danielj]

It is, as the data is "striped" across them (8bits, 8bits, 8bits, 8bits or 16bits, 16bits) rather than being sequential...
d.

[JonC]

It is, as the data is "striped" across them (8bits, 8bits, 8bits, 8bits or 16bits, 16bits) rather than being sequential...
d.

B*gger

[daveejhitchins]

Does anyone know the equivalent EPROM or EEPROM for the Archimedes 2 and 4 ROM OS sets?

Dave H

[danielj]

27C040 or 27C800 (4 rom or 2 rom sets)

d.

[munchausen]

This is really cool. I wonder if it will make my A3010 IDE mod work...

I asked the question about custom ROMs a while back (relating to the BUSH internet surf set)and got this answer from IanB:

It's very easy to make your own custom OS. The modules in ROM are stored sequentially with a 32 bit size word at the beginning of each module. The last module is followed by a zero word and the sizes are 32 bit word aligned.

i.e.
boot code
size of module 1
module1
size of module 2
module2
size of module 3
module3
zero word

To delete a module from a ROM image simply delete the size word and the module itself and close up the gap. To insert a module in an image insert enough space for the size word and module between the end of a module and the size word of the next module.

Of course you will also need to be able to program 27C160 EPROMS like this:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/5pcs-M27C160- ... 5af8fc0a44
Strictly speaking you need about 93ns access time for the EPROMS but these 100ns ones seem to work fine

If only I had a way to read/burn these ROMs...

[daveejhitchins]

Thanks, Daniel . . . Those were the ones I was thinking of. Let me see if I can find some. Maybe EEPROM versions.

Farnell do these at £1.06 each. They'll need a carrier board, but . . . ?

Dave H

[danielj]

also need a level shifter...

[Zarchos]

This is really cool. I wonder if it will make my A3010 IDE mod work...

[SNIP]

..

It's what I thought too.
In case the IDE media you chose wasn't compatable now it could very well be

Fingers crossed

[steve3000]

In case the IDE media you chose wasn't compatable now it could very well be

So far I've had good success with my handful of CF cards (all generic) - but not with my single chip SD->CF adaptor, however this may be a faulty adaptor, so I will test it out properly using an alternative (non-Acorn) IDE interface. Will post up the results once I've done the tests.

[IanB]

This is a rather good idea. -> I've never really looked into "roll your own" ROMs for RiscOS - is there there any documentation about how they're laid out?

I have rolled my own RISCOS ROMs on a RISCPC for versions 3.71 and 4.0 when I was working on the Econet podule. It was a couple of years ago but from memory, the layout is very simple, the modules are stored in a linked list with each module being preceeded by a size word with a zero word following the last module so its: module1 size, module1, module2 size, module2, module 3 size, module 3, 0. I think there was also a checksum at the end of the ROM. If you got that wrong you would get self test fail lights on the floppy but it would eventually boot.

Most of my machines already have Eproms in them so I was thinking of making an updated RISCOS 3.11 incorporating the new VIDC variable clock driver and maybe the TCP/IP stack so perhaps adding the Wizzo IDE driver would be a good idea as well.

[Zarchos]

[SNIP]

Most of my machines already have Eproms in them so I was thinking of making an updated RISCOS 3.11 incorporating the new VIDC variable clock driver and maybe the TCP/IP stack so perhaps adding the Wizzo IDE driver would be a good idea as well.

Indeed !
How much free space is there in the RO 3.11 roms ?
Would it be possible (I think so) to get rid of !Edit and have a more powerful editor ?

I've got another question, specifically for the A5000s.
Most of the time these machines have podules (scsi, midi, etc ...).
How feasible is it to copy the rom they all have and add the wizzo module on it and then burn an E(e)prom with the new contents ?
I understand there are some prerequisites :
Considering the actual rom size (ars) and the size of the code on it (cs) and with the size of the wizzo module (wms), we'll need :
- either an E(e)prom whose size=ars will be able to contain cs+wms
or
- a bigger E(e)prom (if the expansion board can cope with it) will be able to contain cs+wms

There are already a series of podules which could be candidates to get the wizzo module added, simply because there's sbdy who maintained and upgraded the code at ROOL :
- The Acorn SCSI podules AKA30/AKA31/AKA32
See here : https://www.riscosopen.org/content/sales

Do you know if on the Archies the ROMs on the expansion boards are 'simply' recognised by the Archie on start up, or there's some extra logic (software ?) on the ROMs (for example to check bits and bobs) that will allow or not the visibility of the code by RISC OS ?
In short is there some kind of boot uploader on the expansion boards, where size of contents of the code could be checked and prevent the modules to appear if we add some code.
I'm curious to know how difficult it can be to add the wizzo module ; and if in fact the expansion board rom codes are 'transparent', and if what you see disassembling the module as seen on the Archie is a mere equivalent of the onboard ROM code.
All this podule circuitry has always been a mystery to me, although I remember Theo Markettos wrote some interesting and quite detailed pages about it.

[vectorlight]

Most of my machines already have Eproms in them so I was thinking of making an updated RISCOS 3.11 incorporating the new VIDC variable clock driver and maybe the TCP/IP stack so perhaps adding the Wizzo IDE driver would be a good idea as well.

Have you managed to burn RO 3.11 roms for ARM250 machines like the A3010 that have the large 42-pin roms? I had hoped to use M27C160 but they don't seem to work

[IanB]

Have you managed to burn RO 3.11 roms for ARM250 machines like the A3010 that have the large 42-pin roms? I had hoped to use M27C160 but they don't seem to work

I haven't tried it yet but will be doing so in the future. M27C160 EPROMs are double the required size and are suitable for RISC PC, I think you need 27C800 EPROMs for RISCOS 3.1 machines

[vectorlight]

I think you need 27C800 EPROMs for RISCOS 3.1 machines

Ah okay, I'll give some of them a try. Thanks for your help!