PMS 64K Non-Volatile Ram Module

[Pernod]

Anyone have the PMS 64K Non-Volatile Ram Module?

Here's an advert:

I'm specifically looking for the manual and the software that came with it.

The hardware is probably very simple, 64K battery backed RAM, accessible via the paging register at &FCFF and read via JIM.

There's one at CfCH, http://www.computinghistory.org.uk/det/ ... AM-Module/

This kind of suggests it may have come pre-loaded with software, select page 0 and call whatever is there. What's the chances of this still being present?

Worth taking a look at during a future CfCH meeting. Should be easy enough to page in each block and write to floppy.

[jms2]

There is one currently for sale on Ebay actually.

[Pernod]

There is one currently for sale on Ebay actually.

Bit pricey, especially untested and doesn't mention either the software or manual.

[jms2]

Quite. I assume the price is based on rarity (and optimism!)

[Pernod]

Another interesting advert from PMS, from Acorn User Apr.86:

It mentions a PMS Z-range, which are different from the 64K NVRAM module, and come in a range of sizes from 64K upto 512K. There's no mention of software with these devices and also can't find any reviews.

The attached ROM seems to be intended for these, it's definitely by PMS, and reports RAM capacity as one of 64K, 128K, 192K, 256K, 320K, 384K, 448K, 512K. It also references 'No module(s) connected' suggesting multiple modules can be connected.

These RAM disks were also advertised in later months, Aug/Sept, but no mention of pricing and still no mention of the RAM operating system in ROM.

Anyone know anything about them, did they ever exist?

[jms2]

That sticker on the 64k ram module says "*ROSON", which suggests to me that the Advanced Ram Operating System was intended for the 64k module. However it would make sense if it also worked with the Z-modules as well (given that they were bigger, and match the bigger sizes listed in the rom).

It's interesting that the Z-modules are stated as being for the Z80 second processor. Surely they would also work with a normal BBC as well?

[Pernod]

That sticker on the 64k ram module says "*ROSON", which suggests to me that the Advanced Ram Operating System was intended for the 64k module.

The ROM implements *ROS, not *ROSON.

However it would make sense if it also worked with the Z-modules as well (given that they were bigger, and match the bigger sizes listed in the rom).

The 64K module only implements a single page register at &FCFF, whereas the Z-modules require two registers &FCFE/FF. The ROM detects my 64K module emulation as 512K as it can't differentiate between pages &00FF and &07FF.

[KenLowe]

and also can't find any reviews.

I don't know anything about the unit, but from Micro User, Jan 1986:

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[Pernod]

I don't know anything about the unit, but from Micro User, Jan 1986:

Yep, had already seen that, it's the Z-modules that I haven't seen reviews of. This review of the 64K module also states that the ROS is installed on the module, and no mention of a ROM.

[KenLowe]

I don't know anything about the unit, but from Micro User, Jan 1986:

Yep, had already seen that, it's the Z-modules that I haven't seen reviews of. This review of the 64K module also states that the ROS is installed on the module, and no mention of a ROM.

Sorry. Misinterpreted your post.

[Pernod]

Finally, after four years we have the ROM intended for this device (thanks to Zeb Elwood).

The PMS Utility ROM without a PMS 64K NVRAM module attached:

With 64K module attached the initial NVRAM is empty so requires *ROSINIT to setup the filesystem, then can be used as a 64K RAM disc:

It also has a nice *PZAP to view and edit the NVRAM contents:

Or can be used as a printer buffer with *PBUFF:

[tripmeup]

Wow - I remember writing this sooo long ago.. Together with my friend Brian Wyld.
Trivia: If you are wondering who Mr Wynne was (mentioned in the ROM) it was our business studies teacher in secondary school (I wrote this when I was 16).

[Pernod]

Wow - I remember writing this sooo long ago.. Together with my friend Brian Wyld.

What do you remember about what was released? I've not found any adverts for this PMS Utility ROM, and reviews don't mention it either. Were early NVRAM modules provided with Ram OS on floppy, then the ROM came later? What was the Advanced Ram OS intended for, as it seems to support (multiple) modules upto 512K. Was an Electron version ever released?

Can you answer any of the questions about the PMS Z-range earlier in this topic? What software was provided with them, we haven't yet found Z-ROS.

[stevei2791]

Is there a downloadable copy of the PMS RAM OS 4.0 rom available I've done a search around and can't find it?

[Pernod]

Is there a downloadable copy of the PMS RAM OS 4.0 rom available I've done a search around and can't find it?

It's installed to the NVRAM module from the PMS Utility ROM.

[stevei2791]

Thanks for that, unfortunately for me that means that my hacked together code isn't working correctly. Back to disassembling the rom image to understand what's going on.

[Zeb]

Really happy to have been able to help with this, it's interesting to see all this hardware and have a play, see what I couldn't afford back then

Just need to try and find some verification on the battery as when I removed it I forgot to note the voltage.

[tripmeup]

What do you remember about what was released?

Only the 64k module was ever released. There were smaller versions (due to the high cost of static RAM at the time), but I don't think any were ever sold. Ditto for the larger ones - I think we had prototypes, but I honestly don't remember seeing a final product bigger than 64k.

I've not found any adverts for this PMS Utility ROM, and reviews don't mention it either. Were early NVRAM modules provided with Ram OS on floppy, then the ROM came later? What was the Advanced Ram OS intended for, as it seems to support (multiple) modules upto 512K. Was an Electron version ever released?

There was a physical ROM (I remember making it) but the initial version was RAM resident, loaded from the utility disk. There was a 64k printer buffer, and a filesystem (ROS). I don't remember anything much about the Advanced Ram OS.... sorry...

We didn't have and Electron when we were working on the RAM module, that came later when we worked on the E2P and B2P. So, I don't think there was ever anything done specifically for the electron.

Can you answer any of the questions about the PMS Z-range earlier in this topic? What software was provided with them, we haven't yet found Z-ROS.

Yes, the Z-range was a special version made for the Z80 second processor running CP/M. I made a filesystems emulator for the RAM module so that CP/M would see the RAM module as a disk. The utility disk also contained my first version of MZAP and disassembler for the memory on the other side of the Tube. The systems worked pretty well, and made CP/M quite snappy as everything ran out of RAM.

[tripmeup]

One more thing...
The MEMIN, MEMEX, MEMOUT commands were the early prototypes of the code that went into Genie to allow the task switcher effect. Genie had a 32k RAM chip which was used to store a copy of the BBC memory (and memory mapped hardware configuration), so that it could be switched out when Genie took over and then restored when you left Genie. We worked with AMS so that there was a version of Genie that used their mouse, I wonder what happened to that version....

[jms2]

@tripmeup - I don’t suppose you have any old copies of E2P software?

In recent years John Wike has re-created E2P Hi Wordwise Plus, because it seems to be lost. The recreation is just a speculative one though based on reviews etc.

[tripmeup]

I don't really have anything BBC related other than a couple of old manuals. I moved many years ago to work at CERN in Switzerland and didn't keep much. I'll check with my friends back in the UK to see if we can dig up anything