Can you use the Acorn Marconi Trackerball for any Beeb games?

[Tetlee]

Sorry for such a random question, but I've always wanted to play games like Missile Command with a trackerball(I so miss the arcades) and just picked up one of the above for what I think was a great price on ebay with the hopes of being able to kind of replicate that on the Beeb.

(photo randomly plucked from google)

Does anyone know if you can use it this way, and if so is there are list of compatible games?

Would not be suprised if I'm about to be disappointed but sometimes you just have to shoot first and ask questions later and can always sell it on if these are only useful for office type applications.

Thanks in advance

[Multiwizard]

Yes, perhaps not always that handy but yes...

[tricky]

I'm fairly sure that I added support in my port of missile command
It may not be the best movement speed though.

[Tetlee]

Thanks guys and that's great news about your missile command port Tricky, that will be the first one I try.

I suspect you are right and it will be a bit slow to use as it's a mouse rather than an Atari style trackerball but I'm looking forward to try i as when you buy at a great price at least you have nothing to lose.

[BeebMaster]

I've never actually tried to play a game using the trackerball on the Domesday Machine. But last night I failed miserably to get any game to run at all. Tried several favourites, Arcadians, Chuckie Egg, Dare Devil Denis. I think that was more likely due to Econet than anything, but I was loading the games from Econet so I will have to find my "games disc" and try again with Econet disabled. It could also be the way the trackerball software (in the VFS ROM) works.

I wouldn't have thought there was much hope of using the ball itself for movement, but it might be possible to map the 3 trackerball buttons to left, right, fire maybe.

[tricky]

I seem to remember calibrating them based on robc testing, but I'm not sure that I got it right or even 100% that it was the Marconi.
I think I have one somewhere but it is still packed from the move along with 50 other very large boxes and tubs! About 20 have been unpacked, about one a month!

[BeebMaster]

Actually I just had a go using ADVAL. ADVAL 5- 8 are for the co-ordinates, and ADVAL 9 is for the 3 buttons. On joysticks I think ADVAL 0 is for the buttons, so that would have to be remapped to ADVAL 9 to work with the trackerball. I don't know how movement is detected using joysticks, but with the trackerball it would be done by constantly reading the pointer co-ordinate ADVALs and measuring the change, or using the absolute co-ordinate positions if applicable.

[Tetlee]

It arrived today, what a beast of a device.

Tried Trickysofts Missile Command, first selected the trackerball control method... Nothing.

Then to my joy I noticed an actual M - Marconi Mouse setting... Aha! Or so I thought, it moves really nicely left and right, and fire buttons respond just as they should all 3, but up/down has no response. The target drifts to the top of the screen at the start and can only move left/right from there.

Shame as did feel really good.

PS also just tried Trickysoft Centipede and Breakout just incase but no M - Marconi Mouse option on either of those sadly.

[tricky]

I did go back to add it to centipede, but there isn't any room left. It might be worth wiggling the connector a bit on the user port or even giving it a squirt of contact cleaner.
I haven't found mine yet, so haven't confirmed it works for myself.
If you don't touch it, does it still drift, or is the drift related to how much you move the trackball?
If so, if is it only vertical movement of the ball that moves the cross hair, maybe I have the movement and direction pins reversed.
Have you checked that the trackball works on anything else?

[Tetlee]

I did go back to add it to centipede, but there isn't any room left. It might be worth wiggling the connector a bit on the user port or even giving it a squirt of contact cleaner.
I haven't found mine yet, so haven't confirmed it works for myself.
If you don't touch it, does it still drift, or is the drift related to how much you move the trackball?
If so, if is it only vertical movement of the ball that moves the cross hair, maybe I have the movement and direction pins reversed.
Have you checked that the trackball works on anything else?

Thanks for following up on this tricky, ah what a shame about Centipede, that would have been so good to play with the Marconi.

I will try fiddling the port tonight, I don't know how I can test the trackball in general, is there an easy way? I'll be honest I'm not technically minded at all, I remember nothing that I learned at school on the Beebs apart from playing games on them

I think that without touching the trackball the curser didn't move, but once I did it would drift upwards but I can't be sure on that until I try again later, I will confirm.

Really hoping to find a solution as I know one thing, even that little trial of Missile Command felt so good moving left/right with the ball, and the 3 corresponding fire buttons working from the correct bases, I absolutely love opening up new(well, really, old would be closer the point) ways to play these old games. Missile Command has never been a game I've fully enjoyed outside of the arcades due to the lack of trackerball.

[BeebMaster]

Without the VFS ROM (for the Domesday System) where you have various trackerball commands, and expanded ADVAL calls provided by the ROM, how is the trackerball accessed? I suppose games access the user port hardware directly?

[tricky]

Mine does

[tricky]

Looks like there was a tape originally shipped with the trackball that could be used to check if it worked - if I have the right one!
http://chrisacorns.computinghistory.org ... _RB2UG.pdf
It also has the wiring pinouts, so I'll see if they match!

Code: Select all

The connections are:—
CB1 X1
CB2 Y2
PBO Left switch button
PB1 Middle switch button
PB2 Right switch button
PB3 X2
PB4 Y1
PB5, PB6, PB7, not used
5V Power Connection
0V Power Connection.

If the X1 and X2 or Y1 and Y2 were swapped, it would either work anyway or go backwards, so that idea is out!
Looks like X1 and Y2 are supposed to signal movement with the direction on X2 and Y1.

I've check and my code seems to match the wiring given in the manual.

PS Looks like the ROM and software (don't know if it needs the ROM, but probably) are here:

Code: Select all

https://www.domesday86.com/?page_id=61

[Tetlee]

The wiggling... IT WORKED!!!

This is amazing, consider me thrilled. I wonder if any other games work with it, I'm guessing not as would require that specific option.

What a bugger it couldn't fit in Centipede. How about Breakout Tricky?

Whatever the case to be able to use this in Missile Command is justification enough for the purchase, great work Tricky, legend! On a side note I'm still waiting for whoever it was that was going to release all your games on disk, did that fall by the wayside in the end?

Oh and thanks to all for the helpful advice.

[tricky]

Glad the wiggling worked
Arcadian was doing them originally but I don't remember who was taking over.
I don't think that the ports that use the arcade roms will get a physical release as that would mean shipping a copy of the rom. The first ones, I made load the rom and then patched it so that they could be shipped without, but the last ones have hacked versions of the roms assembled in.
Missile command is one that uses the original arcade rom

[Tetlee]

Glad the wiggling worked
Arcadian was doing them originally but I don't remember who was taking over.
I don't think that the ports that use the arcade roms will get a physical release as that would mean shipping a copy of the rom. The first ones, I made load the rom and then patched it so that they could be shipped without, but the last ones have hacked versions of the roms assembled in.
Missile command is one that uses the original arcade rom

I don't suppose you ever did a marble madness type game? That would be another I would kill to play with trackball.

[tricky]

I started one, but didn't get very far. Smooth vertical scrolling on the beeb is easy and there isn't much going on. The maps aren't tiny though. It would really need to support two track balls which it can with my basic ps/2 adapter plus a Marconi or whatever the other one was

[Tetlee]

I'll leave this video link here incase anyone happens accross this thread and is interested to see the outcome...

https://youtu.be/tCpY9cRLth4?si=t1CdavCg4cEhKNuI

[Cybershark]

Got me hoping for a port of Rampart now!

[tricky]

I thought that I had looked at rampart, I remember the Tetris pieces, but thought that the enemy was coming from the sea.
It is all possible on the beeb, at least what I have seen, but I'm not sure if it is for me.
You could use either of the beeb mice plus a ps/2 mouse for two player mode though

[Cybershark]

I thought that I had looked at rampart, I remember the Tetris pieces, but thought that the enemy was coming from the sea.

Your mind is not playing tricks on you! The single player game is quite a different beast to the multiplayer mode.

It is all possible on the beeb, at least what I have seen, but I'm not sure if it is for me.

I think it really would be quite possible. It was a trackball game in the arcade though and such a device - or mouse - is really required to get the most out of it. That said, the Master System version of the game wasn't too bad, and that was played with just with a D-pad

[tricky]

The master system has at least 3 buttons per pad, where as the beeb has 2 total unless you are using my master system adapters in which case you have 4.
You could also use one stick with 2 buttons and two other analogue channels connected to buttons or a mix of keyboard and stick if it has suckers