High Score Challenge - S19 - R10 - Omega Orb

[Venger]

If anyone's interested, I just loaded up the walkthrough on YouTube...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eCg3yqw5mcI

[KarateEd]

So......I guess you're not going to play this ever again are you Venger?

[KarateEd]

Just a reminder to get your 3 games in for the next season folks.

viewtopic.php?f=46&t=26473&p=386313#p386313

[Venger]

So......I guess you're not going to play this ever again are you Venger?

Not really much point now, Ed. The only game I used to go back to, after completion, was Citadel. Any chance of that being eligible to play with a modified scoring system, such as the one we used for this? I mean it does have a scoring system (albeit limited to 99 points). We'd only really need to include a modified system if a few people completed the game. Something like points multiplied by energy left at the end maybe? Food for thought anyway...

[KarateEd]

So......I guess you're not going to play this ever again are you Venger?

Not really much point now, Ed. The only game I used to go back to, after completion, was Citadel. Any chance of that being eligible to play with a modified scoring system, such as the one we used for this? I mean it does have a scoring system (albeit limited to 99 points). We'd only really need to include a modified system if a few people completed the game. Something like points multiplied by energy left at the end maybe? Food for thought anyway...

To be honest, these types of puzzler map type games don't really fit well into the HSC mode. They tend to take too long to finish and they're not really a good scoring method. I would prefer not to have to do modified scoring, it just makes more work for me and as you can see, most people aren't playing this and I think the same would happen with Citadel.

Don't get me wrong, I think it's a great game but the games that fit best on HSC are the quick play type games and some platformers, shootemups, etc......a person should be able to play, at least in the beginning a short time and have had some success. Now we all know that some games are going to get long once you get proficient in them but..... I don't think it's great to start out with a game that you know is going to be long even when you're not proficient.

[Venger]

So......I guess you're not going to play this ever again are you Venger?

Not really much point now, Ed. The only game I used to go back to, after completion, was Citadel. Any chance of that being eligible to play with a modified scoring system, such as the one we used for this? I mean it does have a scoring system (albeit limited to 99 points). We'd only really need to include a modified system if a few people completed the game. Something like points multiplied by energy left at the end maybe? Food for thought anyway...

To be honest, these types of puzzler map type games don't really fit well into the HSC mode. They tend to take too long to finish and they're not really a good scoring method. I would prefer not to have to do modified scoring, it just makes more work for me and as you can see, most people aren't playing this and I think the same would happen with Citadel.

Don't get me wrong, I think it's a great game but the games that fit best on HSC are the quick play type games and some platformers, shootemups, etc......a person should be able to play, at least in the beginning a short time and have had some success. Now we all know that some games are going to get long once you get proficient in them but..... I don't think it's great to start out with a game that you know is going to be long even when you're not proficient.

No problem, Ed, I can definitely see where you're coming from. Unfortunately, from a personal point of view, it doesn't usually take me long to get proficient at playing a game, and that usually leads to most games taking a lot of time . Talking of games that can get long when you become proficient at them, I can see that Chuckie Egg and Manic Miner are on the lists for Season 20.

[KarateEd]

Not really much point now, Ed. The only game I used to go back to, after completion, was Citadel. Any chance of that being eligible to play with a modified scoring system, such as the one we used for this? I mean it does have a scoring system (albeit limited to 99 points). We'd only really need to include a modified system if a few people completed the game. Something like points multiplied by energy left at the end maybe? Food for thought anyway...

To be honest, these types of puzzler map type games don't really fit well into the HSC mode. They tend to take too long to finish and they're not really a good scoring method. I would prefer not to have to do modified scoring, it just makes more work for me and as you can see, most people aren't playing this and I think the same would happen with Citadel.

Don't get me wrong, I think it's a great game but the games that fit best on HSC are the quick play type games and some platformers, shootemups, etc......a person should be able to play, at least in the beginning a short time and have had some success. Now we all know that some games are going to get long once you get proficient in them but..... I don't think it's great to start out with a game that you know is going to be long even when you're not proficient.

No problem, Ed, I can definitely see where you're coming from. Unfortunately, from a personal point of view, it doesn't usually take me long to get proficient at playing a game, and that usually leads to most games taking a lot of time . Talking of games that can get long when you become proficient at them, I can see that Chuckie Egg and Manic Miner are on the lists for Season 20.

They are but I expect that most aren't that proficient at either game enough to cause undue alarm to how long they play. Manic Miner is harder in a lot of ways I think so people will get a fair few plays on it before they start taking a long time. As for Chuckie Egg, yeh, that's going to be long but it does follow the HSC format quite well. It's just that it's so popular with people they got good at it. There are a few here that are really good at it but most are fairly average at it, I count myself in that group and at that level of expertise, it's a fun game because it's never very long but it's always a challenge.

Unfortunately, or fortunately, you just happen to be a top player so you hit those long thresholds really quicklly.

[maniacminer]

If anyone's interested, I just loaded up the walkthrough on YouTube...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eCg3yqw5mcI

Cool, thanks. I've watched half an hour so far. The grinding to get extra lives via credits is a must, some rooms just want to kill you from the get-go Given the amount of Beeb repair I'm doing at the moment, I'm surprised I didn't suggest Transistor's Revenge for the next session

[Cybershark]

If anyone's interested, I just loaded up the walkthrough on YouTube...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eCg3yqw5mcI

Congrats on the completion! I'd question whether its advisable to show off walkthroughs prior to end of round but I guess we all operate on an honour system here

I did have Spycat on the Electron. I found it a bit boring and the puzzles were a bit obscure in that too. I got pretty fed up with it when I was younger but went back to it in my twenties on a rainy Sunday afternoon and completed it.

It looks a bit more arty than the usual by-the-numbers Scott arcade adventures but there seems to be far too much faffing about with doors.

[Cybershark]

So......I guess you're not going to play this ever again are you Venger?

Not really much point now, Ed. The only game I used to go back to, after completion, was Citadel. Any chance of that being eligible to play with a modified scoring system, such as the one we used for this? I mean it does have a scoring system (albeit limited to 99 points). We'd only really need to include a modified system if a few people completed the game. Something like points multiplied by energy left at the end maybe? Food for thought anyway...

To be honest, these types of puzzler map type games don't really fit well into the HSC mode. They tend to take too long to finish and they're not really a good scoring method. I would prefer not to have to do modified scoring, it just makes more work for me and as you can see, most people aren't playing this and I think the same would happen with Citadel.

Don't get me wrong, I think it's a great game but the games that fit best on HSC are the quick play type games and some platformers, shootemups, etc......a person should be able to play, at least in the beginning a short time and have had some success. Now we all know that some games are going to get long once you get proficient in them but..... I don't think it's great to start out with a game that you know is going to be long even when you're not proficient.

Wholly agreed. I don't think players should have to spend half of the fortnight figuring out where to go, and not everyone has time to take multiple hour-long runs at games. Players that solved these games previously are also at a huge advantage. Not suggesting that everything played should be balls-to-the-wall arcade action, but some games just don't make as much sense for this format.

[KarateEd]

Not really much point now, Ed. The only game I used to go back to, after completion, was Citadel. Any chance of that being eligible to play with a modified scoring system, such as the one we used for this? I mean it does have a scoring system (albeit limited to 99 points). We'd only really need to include a modified system if a few people completed the game. Something like points multiplied by energy left at the end maybe? Food for thought anyway...

To be honest, these types of puzzler map type games don't really fit well into the HSC mode. They tend to take too long to finish and they're not really a good scoring method. I would prefer not to have to do modified scoring, it just makes more work for me and as you can see, most people aren't playing this and I think the same would happen with Citadel.

Don't get me wrong, I think it's a great game but the games that fit best on HSC are the quick play type games and some platformers, shootemups, etc......a person should be able to play, at least in the beginning a short time and have had some success. Now we all know that some games are going to get long once you get proficient in them but..... I don't think it's great to start out with a game that you know is going to be long even when you're not proficient.

Wholly agreed. I don't think players should have to spend half of the fortnight figuring out where to go, and not everyone has time to take multiple hour-long runs at games. Players that solved these games previously are also at a huge advantage. Not suggesting that everything played should be balls-to-the-wall arcade action, but some games just don't make as much sense for this format.

True, but the really good thing about this is we get to understand better and better what we should play or not. I don't like to censor games and so far I haven't but I would perhaps suggest a person choose another game.

In fairness Venger did offer to choose another game or let me choose one for him but I said no, we'll figure it out......mostly that had to do with the scoring. Had any of us realized from the get go the pain this game would be then we would have nixed it.....hind sight and all that, right?

Anyway, we'll keep our eye peeled before we have another game like this.......I do usually do a small test run of each game just to get a flavour of it and to see if it actually fits the HSC format properly. We were a few days in before I realized we should have changed this one out.

Anyway, we did learn about it and partly that's what the HSC is about too, playing games we might not otherwise play.....and true to form I will never play this one again.....though the programming is excellent and the 'idea' was sound but some things in it are unforgiveable and break the rules of proper etiquette of gaming....like virtually impossible places that make you lose your lives very quickly, even if you know they are there....not knowing or having a clue what some item might be for, etc.....and on and on.

Enough said I suppose. In spite of it's flaws, I enjoyed playing it for the first week but couldn't bring myself to play it again until today, when Paul and I had our ABUG Canada West meeting and.....I still didn't beat my best score.....I tied it, for the 3rd time.....definition of insanity I'm sure.

[Venger]

If anyone's interested, I just loaded up the walkthrough on YouTube...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eCg3yqw5mcI

Congrats on the completion! I'd question whether its advisable to show off walkthroughs prior to end of round but I guess we all operate on an honour system here

I did have Spycat on the Electron. I found it a bit boring and the puzzles were a bit obscure in that too. I got pretty fed up with it when I was younger but went back to it in my twenties on a rainy Sunday afternoon and completed it.

It looks a bit more arty than the usual by-the-numbers Scott arcade adventures but there seems to be far too much faffing about with doors.

Yeah, I totally get what you mean, and if it was any other round other than the Championship round I'd probably delay publishing the walkthrough until after the end. I do like posting walkthroughs of games that don't have any walkthroughs on the internet. A lot of BBC games don't have walkthroughs because the 8 bit gaming scene used to be dominated by the Spectrum and C64. BBC gaming videos are lot more niche. You can tell by the number of views I get for my BBC videos (usually in the low hundreds, except for Tricky's Pacman which has had 22911 views so far). I get far more views for my Streetfighter II videos but I enjoy making the BBC videos more.

[Venger]

To be honest, these types of puzzler map type games don't really fit well into the HSC mode. They tend to take too long to finish and they're not really a good scoring method. I would prefer not to have to do modified scoring, it just makes more work for me and as you can see, most people aren't playing this and I think the same would happen with Citadel.

Don't get me wrong, I think it's a great game but the games that fit best on HSC are the quick play type games and some platformers, shootemups, etc......a person should be able to play, at least in the beginning a short time and have had some success. Now we all know that some games are going to get long once you get proficient in them but..... I don't think it's great to start out with a game that you know is going to be long even when you're not proficient.

Wholly agreed. I don't think players should have to spend half of the fortnight figuring out where to go, and not everyone has time to take multiple hour-long runs at games. Players that solved these games previously are also at a huge advantage. Not suggesting that everything played should be balls-to-the-wall arcade action, but some games just don't make as much sense for this format.

True, but the really good thing about this is we get to understand better and better what we should play or not. I don't like to censor games and so far I haven't but I would perhaps suggest a person choose another game.

In fairness Venger did offer to choose another game or let me choose one for him but I said no, we'll figure it out......mostly that had to do with the scoring. Had any of us realized from the get go the pain this game would be then we would have nixed it.....hind sight and all that, right?

Anyway, we'll keep our eye peeled before we have another game like this.......I do usually do a small test run of each game just to get a flavour of it and to see if it actually fits the HSC format properly. We were a few days in before I realized we should have changed this one out.

Anyway, we did learn about it and partly that's what the HSC is about too, playing games we might not otherwise play.....and true to form I will never play this one again.....though the programming is excellent and the 'idea' was sound but some things in it are unforgiveable and break the rules of proper etiquette of gaming....like virtually impossible places that make you lose your lives very quickly, even if you know they are there....not knowing or having a clue what some item might be for, etc.....and on and on.

Enough said I suppose. In spite of it's flaws, I enjoyed playing it for the first week but couldn't bring myself to play it again until today, when Paul and I had our ABUG Canada West meeting and.....I still didn't beat my best score.....I tied it, for the 3rd time.....definition of insanity I'm sure.

I'm a bit sorry I picked this one, I was over my father's so I was a bit rushed and only had my phone with me. I just chose the game from memory as I knew it had a scoring system and we'd played other, similar Peter Scott games, such as Last of the Free (which, looking back, probably wasn't a great fit for the HSC either because of its fixed maximum score).

Usually I pick games that I know are of good quality from playing them back in the day, although sometimes, through playing them again many years later, we find out that some of them really weren't that good and are packed full of bugs (Hunkidory!). At least now we'll know not to pick it again. Another game that seems a good fit (but in reality isn't) for the competition is Phantom from Tynesoft, which appeared (but wasn't picked) on the list a few seasons ago. I know this from experience of playing it years ago. It's bugged to hell when trying to kill ghosts; some will die in 1 shot and others will refuse to die even when you've shot them loads of times (especially from close range or from behind). This results in you power pack running out before you can find another one, effectively trapping you. So if I ever see that appear on the list again, I can warn you.

[Cybershark]

Wasn't a criticism of this round, Ed. I certainly got a lot out of it
At least the game was, ultimately, completeable - unlike the previous round's Peter Scott entry.

Imho - despite its flaws - the lesser-known Omega Orb was a better choice than Citadel. I think that, were Citadel to be considered, the randomised item version would be a great leveller of the playing field - although the randomisation could be detrimental to gameplay.

some things in it are unforgiveable and break the rules of proper etiquette of gaming....like virtually impossible places that make you lose your lives very quickly, even if you know they are there....not knowing or having a clue what some item might be for, etc.....and on and on.

Yeah, the fact that the only way to gain enough lives to persevere was to relentlessly farm points on certain screens also left a bit of a bad taste too.

[Venger]

Yeah, the fact that the only way to gain enough lives to persevere was to relentlessly farm points on certain screens also left a bit of a bad taste too.

Technically, I think the game probably would be able to be completed without farming points at all (for extra lives anyway, farming to use the terminals is unavoidable). It'd be very tight though. If you notice from my video, I farm points twice for a total of 4 extra lives. I actually finished the game with 3 lives. I just wanted to make extra sure that I completed the game without any "hairy" moments. I did think that it was a bit crap that you lost energy naturally by firing your weapon (along with the ridiculous requirement to spend credits to access a terminal so you could use an item).

[KarateEd]

I agree with all the points here.

Venger, I came to realize you were under pressure and i should have asked you sooner to select a game, my bad.

I wasn't taking your comments as criticism except in a good way CyberShark. We need all that too, it helps down the road.

All these are valid points and I also think it was good we did this so we have a better idea of what to watch/avoid in the future of HSC.

There's been many times when we've all played games that weren't very good but we played them and we got to do that the one time knowing we'll never play that game again. Playing even bad games can be useful.

In my opinion, Omega Orb wasn't really a bad game, other than the couple of annoying things both of you have mentioned, the game is well programmed and though very difficult, is possible to finish. It just doesn't fit with the HSC mode.

[Cybershark]

Yeah, I totally get what you mean, and if it was any other round other than the Championship round I'd probably delay publishing the walkthrough until after the end.

There are maps, a guide, and the bonus life cheat (that I used to complete the game) available on the net, so it's not really that big a deal. As I said, we have to take a lot on trust around these parts

Usually I pick games that I know are of good quality from playing them back in the day, although sometimes, through playing them again many years later, we find out that some of them really weren't that good and are packed full of bugs (Hunkidory!). At least now we'll know not to pick it again. Another game that seems a good fit (but in reality isn't) for the competition is Phantom from Tynesoft, which appeared (but wasn't picked) on the list a few seasons ago. I know this from experience of playing it years ago. It's bugged to hell when trying to kill ghosts; some will die in 1 shot and others will refuse to die even when you've shot them loads of times (especially from close range or from behind). This results in you power pack running out before you can find another one, effectively trapping you. So if I ever see that appear on the list again, I can warn you.

Rose-tinted memory can certainly be problematic
But there are only so many games out there, and flaws are not always immediately apparent.

Ugh, Phantom was dire. As the closest thing to a Ghostbusters game on the Beeb, I wanted to really like it. Game was so sluggish and dull though!

Technically, I think the game probably would be able to be completed without farming points at all (for extra lives anyway, farming to use the terminals is unavoidable). It'd be very tight though. If you notice from my video, I farm points twice for a total of 4 extra lives. I actually finished the game with 3 lives. I just wanted to make extra sure that I completed the game without any "hairy" moments. I did think that it was a bit crap that you lost energy naturally by firing your weapon (along with the ridiculous requirement to spend credits to access a terminal so you could use an item).

Having completed it myself, I skipped through much of the video so didn't see how many times you used the tactic. From my own tragic performance I assumed you must've used it a lot more than you did

[klintworth]

It helps when you use the correct command!! (I was forgetting to INPUT!!)

[KarateEd]

High Score Table Updated for Season 19, Round Champ......

This game is well programmed with a couple of things mentioned throughout the thread about it's meanness. It's a tough game but has been proven to be doable by Venger so I guess it's a mostly fair game. It's popularity with the HSC crew is shown in the few people that wanted to play it.

The winner is, with a perfect score Venger . It's an achievement to complete this game at all so well done Venger.

On a side note I'd like to thank all those who played this round. We had 7 playing this game this round so.....Thank you!!! It seems we are mostly averaging out at 11 so this participation is a lot below average.

As usual please check to ensure I've not missed anyone's scores because it's easy to miss things on this and I really don't want to do that for anyone's hard earned score.

[MatthewThompson]

I didn't really have the time to play this one as it takes time to work it all out - nothing wrong with this game - I remember it well, still got it somewhere (disc version) but remember it being bizarre with things like Duty free being used to open doors etc !

[Cybershark]

For anyone who wanted to see this one the rest of the way through - or figure out just where they should've been using their items - The Stairway has some very helpful resources:
https://www.stairwaytohell.com/gamehelp/index.html

There are a screenshot map and guide by Bill Carr, and also an old hand-drawn map from A&B Computing.

I also found that using the command GROVEL at a terminal gives a free extra life - and this can be used ad infinitum. That was the only way I was able to complete the game