Remake Bruce Lee for the BBC

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modboy
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Remake Bruce Lee for the BBC

Post by modboy »

Bruce Lee was one of my favourite games for the C64.
Image

The version that came out for the BBC was unfinished and cost more to buy than all versions that were available at the time. Priced £9.99 to £14.99 and close to £50 or more with todays inflation. People forget how expensive retro games actually were and especially for kids who were only 7 or 8 years of age when they started to play computer games. 8 bit machines had computer game developers who were not much older and shared their code in magazines. It's hardly surprising that the Rasberry Pi is a hit amongst school kids today. Unfortunately a lot was lost but luckily I found the Stardot forum.

I was born in a country formerly known as Burma and its main media broadcaster is called Skynet. The colours used on BBC computer games made our avatar look like a magenta umpa lumpa. If you could imagine James Cameron's Avatar and how that would look on the Beeb eg terrible you could also imagine a computer from the future sending another Terminator to kill the teenager responsible for these hacks that would turn Bruce Lee a lighter shade of rasberry topped with yellow hair.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gCR6sruI7zU
Image

You can imagine James Cameron magenta-faced with his hair died yellow and running around half naked chased by a giant green Asian baby that was supposed to represent Bruce Lee's friend Sammo Hung. All that is missing is an invisible Ninja that didn't make their blackfaced screen sprite chops.

Image

The poor graphics and the gameplay has to be readdressed. As the Ninja was missing all that stood between Bruce and Sammo was the infinite white wooden dummy or ladder that meant that he never had to fight his best friend. The game designer must have known that a wide ladder like the C64 version would make it too easy as Sammo never gets a hit. Bruce can also duck and wait for Sammo to climb the ladder to go steal all his lanterns. If Sammo climbs the ladder or jumps off a platform Bruce can wait to one inch punch him to death. I think if there was a two player option for the Beeb you could end up killing your best friend in real life. That Ninja needs to be there and the multiplayer options need to comeback so that 1UP graphic and the two scores at the top of the screen actually mean something. I suppose with the current Beeb version of Bruce Lee a player could practice the art of not fighting and avoiding Sammo at every turn but even that can become tiresome as you have to jump flames with limited falls where its all about timing or you have to start the game all over again. That made this game too hard.

Anyway what US Gold or Datasoft did to Bruce Lee even a babyfaced David Cameron would have had to resign from the game but it does deserve a James Cameron inspired sequel. Could you imagine black ninja Corbin getting kicked off a platform in 8 bit graphics. Or even a green half naked Keir Starmer as player two. A modboy BreaksIt is on the cards if this retrogame is ever going to be popular amongst Acorn fans worldwide.

I am grateful to Rob Coleman for providing his VideoNULA solution to fix the colours.

Image

But I am reaching out to Mark Moxon and Dave Footitt to advise on any available tools and techniques that could be used to get into that Bruce Lee code. I would like to redraw the graphics, adding more colours to the seven used, reanimate the sprites, speed up the falls from platforms, slow down the flames and add a ninja opponent or several so that we can play two player eg Bruce and Sammo fighting together to beat the game.
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Re: Remake Bruce Lee for the BBC

Post by Ronin47 »

One of my favourites too, but for the Atari 8 bit machines, in my case an 800XL.

A decent BBC conversion would be nice :)
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Re: Remake Bruce Lee for the BBC

Post by tricky »

I didn't get most of the, I assume, political references as I avoid that sort of thing, but having seen what has been done for some other games recently including manic miner and elite, this also deserves some love.
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Re: Remake Bruce Lee for the BBC

Post by fizgog »

Not I game I ever had, but I think it would have looked better with a cyan background, the the hair and legs could have been black with a yellow body
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Re: Remake Bruce Lee for the BBC

Post by MatthewThompson »

I remember playing it on a friends Spectrum , thought it was a great game, and was so pleased to see a BBC version, but when I got it was hugely disappointed - so much missing from it - probably due to the tight 32K of memory - how different things could have been with 48K or more.

This was one of the games that Micro Power did for US Gold , they converted Spy Hunter and Tapper as well I think, but after games like Mr EE, Castle Quest and Imogen you would have expected better from them.

So a new BBC remake would be fantastic .
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Re: Remake Bruce Lee for the BBC

Post by tricky »

I was just watching the YT Atari version, I never even realised that there was more than one screen! Maybe put Bruce in his yellow tracksuit on the beeb!
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Re: Remake Bruce Lee for the BBC

Post by modboy »

Explanation of my political references:

Baby face - eg David Cameron - known for always referring to his wife as babe. He is remembered for being the only PM to lose a referendum and therefore resign.

Corbin rhymes with turban and if he was wearing one and black-faced nobody would care or see him nevertheless he could be a deadly Asian warrior feared by the right wing media and Modi. Doesn't matter which side you are on politically if he was in a computer game you'd wanna kill that villain as many times as you can.

Keir Starmer is a well "rounded" leader. May become PM one day. Most likely won't lose any referendums and will never be up against a lying hunchback. Sammo Hung could look like a half naked greenEd Balls if that makes better sence.

If nobody understands who the hunchback is he got yellow hair in real life, might be coloured magenta on BBC 8-bit graphics and was once mayor of the new Tower of London. That building look like a giant "johnson". If nobody knows what a johnson is they can look that up in the urban dictionary.
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Re: Remake Bruce Lee for the BBC

Post by Cybershark »

modboy wrote: Thu Dec 15, 2022 10:49 amThe colours used on BBC computer games made our avatar look like a magenta umpa lumpa.
Looking at the Spectrum version, the BBC seems to mimic its colours.
Nula aside, the Beeb just doesn't have duller colours. Honestly, while there are many times I may look at other platforms palettes with envy, I far prefer the Beeb's colours over those hideously muted C64/Atari hues!

Would definitely agree with Fizgog's suggestions about colour alterations though. Could probably even squeeze the mountains in, on those upper screens, between the highest point the player can climb to and the score line.
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Re: Remake Bruce Lee for the BBC

Post by fizgog »

I wished the beeb didn't have the 8 flashing colours but instead either had darker or lighter versions of the standard 8

Quick knock up with different colours they could have used bitd

BruceLee-USGold-2.png
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Re: Remake Bruce Lee for the BBC

Post by tricky »

What I have done with a couple of my games is turned flashing off, then used the second version of a colour where it looks OK, but would look better in a different shader/colour and then remapped them if a NuLA is present.
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Re: Remake Bruce Lee for the BBC

Post by Kweepa »

Maybe something like this?
brucelee.png
brucelee.png (6.54 KiB) Viewed 2524 times
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Re: Remake Bruce Lee for the BBC

Post by Kweepa »

Was looking for a sprite set from the c64/atari and found this thread about some enhanced sprites. If someone does take on this project, they might want to contact the artist about using them :)
https://forums.atariage.com/topic/29294 ... d-sprites/
In beeb palette (original atari sprites in upper rows):
bruceleespritesheet.png
bruceleespritesheet.png (18.26 KiB) Viewed 2484 times
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Re: Remake Bruce Lee for the BBC

Post by fizgog »

Very nice sprites looks like 8x22 in mode 2
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Re: Remake Bruce Lee for the BBC

Post by Dave Footitt »

Hi,

I did consider having a crack at a NULA version of Bruce Lee, and went as far as getting (most of?) the graphics out:

Image

I ended up going for Pharaoh's Curse as my mate who does the graphics preferred tackling that one instead.

If you're interested my initial tinkering is here, I didn't get very far, but might be a good starting point.
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Re: Remake Bruce Lee for the BBC

Post by modboy »

On a more serious note could anyone recommend a good assembly language or machine code book for the BBC or any resources or tools.

I'd like to understand how it all really works for the Beeb regarding sprites. Micropower must have faced a lot of issues. 32k may not have been enough to have a Ninja or they did the best they could in the time they had.

I'd like to experiment with 64k and 128k memory. Also if I design a game loading from an MMC, I'd hope to play with higher resolution modes and more colours. I'm not making a game that will run on an old BBC B but an upgraded one of today.

If a game has ROM / RAM support or I'm able to move memory around I'd like to see where that all goes. What can actually be achieved I will not really know without taking a stab at it.

Thanks for sharing Dave. All considered "remake" might actually have to mean exactly that. Its looking a lot like I'll have to code a new game.

I have a nephew that wants to be a computer game programmer. His father is taking him through python. I'd like to teach him how to be a better programmer by redoing some C64 or Beeb games. I'll also be teaching myself in the process. Hopefully by the end of it he'll have a good level to start coding in C.
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Re: Remake Bruce Lee for the BBC

Post by Symo »

modboy wrote: Fri Dec 23, 2022 10:37 am On a more serious note could anyone recommend a good assembly language or machine code book for the BBC or any resources or tools.
This was my bible back in the day: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Assembly-Progr ... 0333370961

The sprite plotter for Citadel 2 though (for the player, the other sprites had custom routines) was based on one in the Micro User, that was what got me started.
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Re: Remake Bruce Lee for the BBC

Post by fizgog »

modboy wrote: Fri Dec 23, 2022 10:37 am I have a nephew that wants to be a computer game programmer. His father is taking him through python. I'd like to teach him how to be a better programmer by redoing some C64 or Beeb games. I'll also be teaching myself in the process. Hopefully by the end of it he'll have a good level to start coding in C.

You don't need to know 6502 coding to give you a good start in C or C++

You would be better off taking the Bruce Lee "idea" and coding it on the PC in something like Unity in C# or you can also do it in C++ in the Unreal engine by turning the camera so it looks like 2D even though it's 3D
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Re: Remake Bruce Lee for the BBC

Post by Kweepa »

Here's a MODE 5 mock up, with some raster color splits for the background.
bruceleemode5.png
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Re: Remake Bruce Lee for the BBC

Post by modboy »

Thanks for graphics suggestions. I'd like to use a Z80 coprocessor and move the sprites into the operating system memory. There is a 16 bank co-processor board being sold with BBC Basic already on so I can lose that ROM on my Beeb too. It's not like I'll be using it on this project. I think the ZX hackers went a lot further than Micropower did stuck on an old Beeb. Possibly handling sprites like a Spectrum coder porting that back to the BBC and then using VideoNULA to get 16 colours at a higher resolution mode might work? I heard also that the Z80 can go to 20MHz. I don't want to use a Gotek as the Turbo MMC is really fast. There is a 200k ssd limit I'll have to work with. Anyone done any games moved the memory around or hacked using a Z80 on here?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EotuyJZg0jE
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Re: Remake Bruce Lee for the BBC

Post by sa_scott »

modboy wrote: Fri Dec 23, 2022 10:37 am On a more serious note could anyone recommend a good assembly language or machine code book for the BBC or any resources or tools.

I'd like to understand how it all really works for the Beeb regarding sprites. Micropower must have faced a lot of issues. 32k may not have been enough to have a Ninja or they did the best they could in the time they had.

I'd like to experiment with 64k and 128k memory. Also if I design a game loading from an MMC, I'd hope to play with higher resolution modes and more colours. I'm not making a game that will run on an old BBC B but an upgraded one of today.

If a game has ROM / RAM support or I'm able to move memory around I'd like to see where that all goes. What can actually be achieved I will not really know without taking a stab at it.

Thanks for sharing Dave. All considered "remake" might actually have to mean exactly that. Its looking a lot like I'll have to code a new game.

I have a nephew that wants to be a computer game programmer. His father is taking him through python. I'd like to teach him how to be a better programmer by redoing some C64 or Beeb games. I'll also be teaching myself in the process. Hopefully by the end of it he'll have a good level to start coding in C.
Now, I'm no expert on assembler, but there are two books which come to mind. One has already been quoted (Ian Birnbaum's Assembly Language Programming for the BBC Microcomputer). The other is Jonathan Griffiths' Creative Assembler for the BBC Micro (viewtopic.php?t=25191). Griffiths wrote many of the finest Acornsoft games (Snapper) so he knew his stuff.

Other resources include the 8 bit magazine archive at 8bs.com. The Micro User magazine ran a number of series on machine code games programming. The one I remember the most was from the April 1989 issue onwards, and ran for about 5 or 6 issues. However, there was an earlier series by Kevin Edwards from around 1987. Edwards also wrote a good many BBC games (Crazee Rider, Galaforce) and is therefore, again, an authoritative series of articles. The thing to remember is that these publications were very much of their time. The tooling now available to us means that some of the techniques described then, may well have been superceded by new tools (beebasm).

Anyway, should be enough to go on, for a start!
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Re: Remake Bruce Lee for the BBC

Post by modboy »

fizgog wrote: Fri Dec 23, 2022 11:23 am
You don't need to know 6502 coding to give you a good start in C or C++

You would be better off taking the Bruce Lee "idea" and coding it on the PC in something like Unity in C# or you can also do it in C++ in the Unreal engine by turning the camera so it looks like 2D even though it's 3D
I can't disagree there. But my nephew is a lot younger than me and will save the C64, ZX Spectrum and BBC from the skip.
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Re: Remake Bruce Lee for the BBC

Post by julie_m »

The Beeb's colour palette is what it is because it's ultimately generating a 3-bit RGB display -- which is quite easy to encode for a PAL TV set, and very easy to display on an RGB monitor. The Spectrum has a sort of "3.1 bit RGB" display, with an extra signal for bright/dim. (This is also how CGA worked; in fact, you could use a CGA monitor with a BBC Micro, by tying the "bright" line to +5V). Some European countries, especially France, used SECAM colour encoding for TV broadcasting; and the need to convert between PAL and SECAM -- which, for all practical purposes, means going via RGB -- meant there was a lot of RGB-capable equipment on this side of the pond. At the time of the BBC Micro's launch, the SCART/PERITEL connector, designed to support RGB natively, was just coming into fashion; although the Single European Market was still some years away, and British set makers were still wedded to live-chassis designs (not good to have external connections; the tricks they had to pull to make the aerial socket safe to touch only worked on UHF signals) so ubiquitous SCART sockets were still a bit in future. But RGB was commonly found on professional equipment, even if it would not reach the home for some years.

Anyway, if you were an electronics engineer thinking of displaying anything on a PAL TV set in the early 1980s, your thoughts would naturally turn to generating an RGB signal and then encoding this into PAL .....

In NTSC-land, it's very easy to generate separate "picture" and "colour" signals, because the colour signal works the same on even and odd lines; but the colours you generate will almost never quite line up with the "pure" RGB colours. You can create a PAL version by modifying the video circuitry to add the phase alternation, of course. And there wasn't as much RGB kit flying around, because there was less need for standards conversion in a whole big country using just one standard. And a lot of material was shot on cine film, especially for international distribution.

This is basically why US-designed machines like the Commodore 64, Atari 800 and TI-99/4A typically had more, but muddier-looking, colours than their British-designed contemporaries; it was because of a fundamentally different approach to generating video signals.
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Re: Remake Bruce Lee for the BBC

Post by modboy »

Kweepa wrote: Fri Dec 23, 2022 3:30 pm Here's a MODE 5 mock up, with some raster color splits for the background.
bruceleemode5.png
Do you have a sprite editor? or the screen maps for all the BBC modes?

I'm experimenting with direct screen addressing. There is not an editor so I'm building one for mode 2. With VideoNULA I can keep the original BBC palette and replace the flashing 8 to have 16 colours.

The idea is that you can create a sprite for the platforms and draw it on screen. That will be how a level screen will be created. Background sprites can also be drawn which do not move. Each time the character sprites scroll the screen will be reprinted. If that proves too slow I will split the screen map into horizontal and vertical bands and only reprint a block of screen area surrounding each character sprite.

I will try to keep it all under 256,000 bits (32k) and up to 512,000 bits (64k)

That will give me a 2D engine for any platform game. If anyone has access to a sprite editor a screen background editor for a BBC? It would save me a lot of time.

Also I do not like the sounds on BBC games they are even worse than the gamer avatars. On a Commodore 64 or ZX Spectrum sound effects faded in and out perfectly and were all quite subtle. There is no sound when Bruce collects the lanterns on the BBC version. I'd like to get something similar to the C64. Is there a machine code sampler or an advanced guide for machine code sound effects for a Beeb?
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Re: Remake Bruce Lee for the BBC

Post by fizgog »

I would use beeb spriter, it used to be on retro software but it went down, but you can get it from here

https://github.com/simondotm/stardot-wi ... eebSpriter

And for the sound effects convert them from vgm from maybe the master system remake https://www.smspower.org/Homebrew/BruceLee-SMS
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Re: Remake Bruce Lee for the BBC

Post by Arcadian »

fizgog wrote: Sat Feb 04, 2023 12:31 pm I would use beeb spriter, it used to be on retro software but it went down, but you can get it from here

https://github.com/simondotm/stardot-wi ... eebSpriter


Ah, the Retro Software Wiki is back online now:

http://www.retrosoftware.co.uk/wiki/ind ... eebSpriter
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Re: Remake Bruce Lee for the BBC

Post by tricky »

At a push, you can have two discs inserted, so 400K but I'm not sure if there are any restrictions.

Great news Arcadian.

PS This was the basic sprites code I was talking about: viewtopic.php?f=53&t=12565
If you are planning a Spectrum port, you might want to consider running 256x192 (lowest common denominator) or 300x200 on the C64.
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Re: Remake Bruce Lee for the BBC

Post by fizgog »

Arcadian wrote: Sat Feb 04, 2023 12:45 pm
fizgog wrote: Sat Feb 04, 2023 12:31 pm I would use beeb spriter, it used to be on retro software but it went down, but you can get it from here

https://github.com/simondotm/stardot-wi ... eebSpriter


Ah, the Retro Software Wiki is back online now:

http://www.retrosoftware.co.uk/wiki/ind ... eebSpriter
Thanks Arcadian that is now set to one of my favourites
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Re: Remake Bruce Lee for the BBC

Post by modboy »

tricky wrote: Sat Feb 04, 2023 1:14 pm At a push, you can have two discs inserted, so 400K but I'm not sure if there are any restrictions.
[\quote]

I think that will be enough for this game. What if I load the levels via Turbo MMC? Can I load multiple smaller blocks.

I'm working on the graphics now. Its going to take a while. I'm being fussy. As its already so hard it better look good for all that extra effort.

I've upgraded my BBC with everything I can think of. But now I'm feeling like trying to do it for a 32k Beeb
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Re: Remake Bruce Lee for the BBC

Post by modboy »

Kweepa wrote: Fri Dec 23, 2022 3:30 pm Here's a MODE 5 mock up, with some raster color splits for the background.
bruceleemode5.png
I think I will use your colours and try to stick to the old BBC palette as much as possible. For anyone that buys a VideoNULA there will be new colours and hopefully a few more than eight
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Re: Remake Bruce Lee for the BBC

Post by tricky »

I forgot that they are 80 track discs, so you have 200K per side and four sides if you don't mind prefixing your filename with 0:, 1:, 2: or 3:.
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