Eprom programmers

[ChrisJC]

Afternoon All,
For reading / writing EPROMs, I use a MicroMaster 1000E. This is an old piece of kit, almost contemporary with the Beeb itself! It requires a PC with a Parallel Port to run.
Currently, my desktop PC has a parallel port (a real one), so I simply run a VMWare Virtual Machine hosting FreeDOS, which is sufficient to run the software for the MM1000.

I am considering ditching the desktop PC for a NUC, which does not have a proper parallel port. This gives me a couple of options:
1. Try a USB Parallel Port with the NUC, and see if the MM1000 + VMWare + FreeDOS combination still works
2. Buy something a bit more modern, maybe even USB based?

What do other folks do to allow them to read / write EPROMS in this day and age?

Thanks,

Chris.

[cmorley]

I mostly use in machine reprogrammable EEPROM but when I do want some quartz window nostalgia I use my Wellon VP598. I have a TL866CS as well but the Wellon is 10x better so the 866 stays in its box :/

For erasing I have one of the generic Chinese UV erasers. I chopped off the Chinese/US plug and fitted a UK plug - much better than using a death adapter.

[nicolagiacobbe]

I can only put forward an educated opinion.
Being the device as old as our beloved beeb quite certainly has the parallel port under direct control i.e. is not using it to talk to another CPU but to latch 8 bit data or, even worse, shifting data in/out: both options need a strict timing control on LPT signals, something that is unattainable using an USB<>LPT converter, for at the bare minimum the USB latency will be at least 1ms.
My personal suggestions, mediated by the fact that I am not the brightest of the crew:
To avoid problems and just going back to reading/writing EPROMS: buy a new cheap chinese programmer
To learn a lot: use a Raspberry PI / Beaglebone with a dos emulator and patch it to access the I/O pins directly
I am still using a WIN98 laptop for those issues but I remind myself *very* often that I should *really* go for the latter route.

(Also, I should repair that poor watford EPROM programmer that has been the past 21 years in a drawer)

[BeebMaster]

I still use my Morley V2 EPROM Programmer to read and write EPROMs. It will do up to 27256. I also have an SC84 programmer, which I use occasionally to duplicate ROMs. It has a serial interface so that it can be controlled by a computer, but I've always used it as a standalone unit. That will do up to 27512.

[roland]

I am still very satisfied with my TL866II Plus programmer. I suggest you don't buy a Genius G540 (clone) since the software does not work correctly. At least, that's my experience with that programmer and that's why it learned to fly

[ChrisJC]

Ahaaa, I was researching this and came across the Dataman S4. Then I remembered I have one of those already!

They use RS232, so would be compatible with a USB to RS232 converter.

Problem solved.

Chris.

[scruss]

That S4 looks rather good, and I'm pleasantly surprised the manufacturer still seems to support it.

Otherwise I would have recommended the TL866-II. It's slightly fiddly to set up if you're not using Windows (and Sophos actively hates the install file) but once the firmware's upgraded it works really well under Linux. It seems to support almost every chip I might ever encounter, too.

[roland]

Do you run it in Wine or do you have a native Linux program for it?

[scruss]

I use David Griffith / minipro. It's a very simple command line program, but works. No WINE required.

The only disadvantage of the TL886-II for real retro applications is that its EPROM programming voltage tops out at 18 V, so really high voltage chips can't be programmed.

[ChrisJC]

I run the software for the MM1000 under FreeDOS inside a VMWare Virtual Machine on Linux Mint 20.

I haven't tried the Dataman software yet, but will attempt something similar.

Chris.

[MartinB]

I've used an S4 forever for all retro and Beeb-related things and it just works. Perfectly. All the time.

I use it either stand-alone or via the S4 Driver application running on various MS Windows machines with the remote serial connection coming from a Tronisoft USB-to-RS232 adaptor. (Can't offer any thoughts regarding non-Windows remote use as I don't understand the first thing about any of that malarky so I'm just hearing white noise there.)

So for me, S4 every time but for good reason, you need a fair few bucks to acquire one these days.

[sweh]

Apparently, you just setup the S4 via the keypad and then just "raw" send the data from Linux. Can't get much simpler than that!

https://forum.dataman.com/viewtopic.php?t=408

[MartinB]

Hi Stephen
Yeah, that’s essentially just using the computer as a remote serial terminal and indeed, I have actually used a Beeb and Commstar to drive the S4 in that way. Regarding my lack of knowledge though, I was actually referring to using the bespoke S4 driver program for Windows which has icons and drop-menus etc and I was just noting that I wouldn’t have a clue how to use that, or whether it work, under anything other than MS Windows.

[1024MAK]

I have a number of different programmers, but most often use my S4. I use it’s built-in keypad to control it, and use a normal serial terminal on my one of my Linux PCs (Cutecom actually) to send it files (normally raw binary) via the PC’s RS232 serial port. I upload ROM files the same way.

I got my S4 for a reasonable price, but yeah, often they go for £200+ or thereabouts.

Mark

[gfoot]

If you're looking for a very cheap USB-based option, are programming EEPROMs rather than EPROMs, and can put up with only being able to write and not read/verify, then I recently documented how to wire a £4 Raspberry Pi Pico directly to program an EEPROM without needing any additional ICs. You could pretty easily turn that into something more permanent/splashproof/etc if you're on a budget. I have a variant for Arduino Nano as well, again without requiring additional ICs.

I don't know how different the protocols are for EPROMs, if they're similar enough then this could work for them too.

If you're not on a budget then the TL866-ii is the defacto entry level option - just it's not as cheap as you might like.

[storeman]

As I have only recently returned to the 8 bit scene with a faulty B+ that I found abandoned in a deserted part of the factory I work in, I am also a newcomer to the forum and have just come across this thread.

Getting this faulty beeb kick-started my interest and I bought some kit for when I finally get the machine running. I bought a generic UV eraser and the Chinese TL866II plus programmer. It seems to be capable of anything I will want to throw at it. The device seems to have a boost circuit that allows it to program chips that need 12v even though it is powered by 5v through the USB port. It cannot program older EPROMs that require a much higher voltage. The bonus with this device is that it can also test 74xx & 40xx logic chips.

[tricky]

I do all my programming on my Art EPP2, although the software is DOS or windows98se (max I think).

It wasn't working on my new PC, but I think that might have been a cable-adapter hasn't been unplugged in over 20 years.
If anyone else is trying to use one of these on a modern PC with a serial port, you can use PROMPROG in DOS box or the windows version in VirtualPC (only tested on win7 before fixing the cable). The DOSBox option is much better as it boots in about 1 second and the config file contains an AUTOEXEC.BAT so PROMPROG will start immediately and DOSBox close when the program does.

I've also nearly completed a modern windows program to driver the programmer, but a linux command prompt is probably sufficient as the entire protocol is printed on the top of the programmer and is text based. You just need to convert data into an SRecord. There is even someone who has done it for linux https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HaJ7cCiF-0c although they haven't posted there code yet.

I'm looking for something that programs faster although I don't program very often! It doesn't have to cover everything as I will still keep the EPP2 connected.
I want something "cheap as chips" (£20ish) as I don't really need it, but the ability to identify EPROM with wrong/no numbers would be a nice bonus.

Any recommendations?

[boba]

I still use an elderly Stag P301 with StagCom95 software (which rather indicates its preferred operating system) but in fact it manages OK on this W10 computer on a serial port. One of these slightly odd things that likes to think it's the boss as the pins are the wrong sex for a normal cable. I also use a 'Willem' lookalike time to time but it's a bit of a Heath-Robinson lashup for some of the older high-voltage eproms. I just use a cheapo matchbox-sized UV eraser from eBay (China) after my original one expired.

[1024MAK]

I’ve got a Willem connected to an old PC. It works well, but because I only use it occasionally, I have to read up on it each time I use it to make sure that I get the correct links/jumper shunts in the correct positions…

If you do want to buy one, avoid the type that only works from a USB cable. They have known problems programming 21V EPROMs. Get one that has an external 12V power input and use a 12V PSU with it.

Mine runs off the old PC Parallel printer port (Centronics).

Most of the time I use my S4.

Mark