PC Emulator

[RonT]

I have just acquired a copy of the PC Emulator software.

Unfortunately it didn't come with the DR-DOS 6 discs.

On page v of the User guide it mentions that the DR-DOS 6 discs contains the operating system and standard DOS utilities together with Acorn specific DOS utilities that are for use with the PC Emulator.

Can anyone tell me if I have to use DR-DOS 6 or would MS-DOS 6 work ok?

Also is it essential to have the Acorn specific DOS utilities, because if I do I guess it rules out MS-DOS 6 or a plain vanilla copy of DR-DOS 6?

If I do have to use the version of DR-DOS 6 that contains the Acorn specific DOS utilities, can anyone provide a legal link that doesn't 'break the law"?

Or maybe help with the Acorn specific DOS utilities only?

Thanks in advance.

[geraldholdsworth]

You can use MS-DOS, or even Windows 95.

[RonT]

Hi Gerald, thanks for answering, I'm just getting started with all of this - you can probably tell.

That sounds as if I don't need any Acorn specific DOS utilities - would that be correct ?

It also sounds as if I could setup Windows 95 would that be correct - if so do I just setup Win 95 as normal by feeding in all of the floppies in turn?

Thanks

[steve-h]

I might have a copy of the Acorn disks that came with my A3000.. No idea if they work as my floppy drive doesn't!

[RonT]

Steve can I PM you?

[geraldholdsworth]

Hi Gerald, thanks for answering, I'm just getting started with all of this - you can probably tell.

It's been a while for me. I actually gave up emulating a PC when my work, at the time, gave me the bits to make a proper PC.

That sounds as if I don't need any Acorn specific DOS utilities - would that be correct ?

Yep, you don't need them, but might be useful to have them. But then again, I never knew there were any specific Acorn utlities.

It also sounds as if I could setup Windows 95 would that be correct - if so do I just setup Win 95 as normal by feeding in all of the floppies in turn?

In theory, yes. From what I remember, installing Windows 95 was a pain, and not just on the emulator.

[RonT]

Hi Gerald, thanks for answering, I'm just getting started with all of this - you can probably tell.

It's been a while for me. I actually gave up emulating a PC when my work, at the time, gave me the bits to make a proper PC.

That sounds as if I don't need any Acorn specific DOS utilities - would that be correct ?

Yep, you don't need them, but might be useful to have them. But then again, I never knew there were any specific Acorn utlities.

It also sounds as if I could setup Windows 95 would that be correct - if so do I just setup Win 95 as normal by feeding in all of the floppies in turn?

In theory, yes. From what I remember, installing Windows 95 was a pain, and not just on the emulator.

Thanks Gerald, that has been most helpful - in another post Steve-h said in another post that he might have the Dos Utilities disk.
I'm not sure exactly what I need to be honest

Regards

[steve-h]

Steve can I PM you?

Yep. I wont be able to search for the disks until tomorrow at the earliest, but I do remember having a chuckle at Acorn branded DOS disks when I got it - so I'm pretty sure they exist!

Steve

[RonT]

Thanks Steve

Please let me know how you get on and I will sort out some suitable form of postage for you.

Regards.

[SarahWalker]

Windows 95 will not work on the Acorn PC emulator; the most recent Windows version that will run is 3.0, and that will not run very well. Stick with DOS!

[steve3000]

You can use MS-DOS, or even Windows 95.

I don't think that's right.

You're thinking of the RiscPC 486 processor card, not the software Acorn PC emulator.

The best that the emulator can manage is DOS or at a stretch very early Windows 2 or possibly 3.0?

[paulb]

You can use MS-DOS, or even Windows 95.

I don't think that's right.

You're thinking of the RiscPC 486 processor card, not the software Acorn PC emulator.

The best that the emulator can manage is DOS or at a stretch very early Windows 2 or possibly 3.0?

Some more information: "VGA PC software runs on desktop", Acorn User, August 1991.

[SarahWalker]

Windows 3.0 will be stuck running in real mode, meaning 640kb available and basically no real software will run under it.

[paulb]

Windows 3.0 will be stuck running in real mode, meaning 640kb available and basically no real software will run under it.

I have to say that having reviewed Acorn's strategy from when the Archimedes came out (and remembering it from the time), there was a two-year period squandered where Acorn were pushing things like the PC Emulator, alongside a bunch of long-forgotten ported applications and, initially, entertaining the idea that people would buy a £1000 machine to run single-tasking Beeb ROM applications, before some kind of coherent application platform emerged. But what I find more baffling was that Acorn kept on with the whole PC compatibility thing, including it in home and office bundles, even though all the more sober commentary indicated that it was inadequate for anyone wanting acceptable contemporary PC-compatible levels of performance and usability. And though the Risc PC's cheap (relative to the earlier Aleph One podules) PC card solution was a nice trick, I think it probably distracted significantly from delivering a more competitive product, and yet there was still plenty of criticism of the performance of all those cards, accompanied by Acorn's excuses about them being "useful for people who occasionally need to use PC software" and such, significantly toning down the claims that were made in the first place.

But I suppose it is all interesting history and nice that we can experiment with all these things now, if only to see what we missed first time round.

[jms2]

I quite agree regarding Acorn's product strategy. For some reason I remember this bizarre advert:

https://archive.org/details/AcornUser19 ... /mode/2up

Why use a black and white advert to sell a machine with 4096 colours? And why avoid talking about its specifications when you can showcase a probably fictitious shoe salesman?

[paulb]

I quite agree regarding Acorn's product strategy. For some reason I remember this bizarre advert:

https://archive.org/details/AcornUser19 ... /mode/2up

Why use a black and white advert to sell a machine with 4096 colours? And why avoid talking about its specifications when you can showcase a probably fictitious shoe salesman?

At first, I thought it was Bob Monkhouse!

I think that this particular issue of Acorn User is an indication of the kind of lull that one could see in the Acorn market recurring throughout the years, between all the significant events on the timeline. 1988 was a pretty dull year, it would seem, with all the excitement from 1987 having subsided but with not a lot of particularly exciting products to cover. Only when RISC OS came out in 1989 would the mood lift again, but it would still take a while for the more interesting products to emerge. I also think that the A3000 probably boosted the market quite a bit, too.

Acorn's Unix products also started showing up in 1989, although I recall concerns that they wouldn't be competitive from the likes of Clive Grace, but the relevant A&B Computing issues aren't available online, so we can't really get into that. But that was all a bit serious and upmarket for most readers of those publications. The Unix marketplace in the late 1980s and early 1990s is also pretty interesting from a historical perspective.

It is interesting to see that the shoe salesman advert also notes the PC compatibility option, and this was, of course, the era of the A310M bundle that emphasised such things. Moving up from the single-tasking mindset of the Beeb and DOS, the strategy of porting various standalone applications (possibly including the one the salesman used: Logistix, perhaps) probably didn't seem too odd, but it seems more obviously incoherent from today's perspective, and probably even from different perspectives of that era.

[RonT]

Totally fascinating.

Can anyone recall any recollections regarding running the PC mini podule card in an A30x0?

I see them advertised occasionally and if the 'wind was blowing in the right direction' could easily be tempted.

Regards

[RonT]

Windows 3.0 will be stuck running in real mode, meaning 640kb available and basically no real software will run under it.

Thanks Sarah - I had completely forgotten about Windows' real mode.

[SarahWalker]

Can anyone recall any recollections regarding running the PC mini podule card in an A30x0?

I see them advertised occasionally and if the 'wind was blowing in the right direction' could easily be tempted.

I've not used the mini podule version specifically, but I do have the full-size podule which is virtually the same. It's tolerable for using Windows 3.1, but not exactly fast - at least on the 386SX version. The 486SLC versions should be a bit better but it's never going to be amazing. DOS text mode stuff is okay but the VGA emulation is fundamentally quite slow so forget about anything graphical; there are accelerated graphics drivers for Windows which work around this.

[paulb]

Totally fascinating.

Can anyone recall any recollections regarding running the PC mini podule card in an A30x0?

I see them advertised occasionally and if the 'wind was blowing in the right direction' could easily be tempted.

Another trip into the past: "Acorns and PCs meet", Acorn User, March 1993.

I'm not sure I've seen a review of these cards specifically, though, but the successor did get a review: "Rock and roll Hardware", Acorn User, August 1994.

I wonder how many of the Acorn-badged cards were sold or bundled in the end. It seems that they took over the kind of place that the PC Emulator had in the A3000 Learning Curve bundle (again, Acorn introduce the emulator in their promotional literature before even really introducing the native stuff, all to be able to promote once-popular DOS applications), and they might have been a nice-to-have extra for individuals willing to spend the money, but the A3020 and A4000 were more education-oriented machines, and then it becomes much more of a value for money issue. Still, it raises the possibility that there are machines out there with bonus PC cards in them.

[paulb]

I have just acquired a copy of the PC Emulator software.

Unfortunately it didn't come with the DR-DOS 6 discs.

On page v of the User guide it mentions that the DR-DOS 6 discs contains the operating system and standard DOS utilities together with Acorn specific DOS utilities that are for use with the PC Emulator.

Can anyone tell me if I have to use DR-DOS 6 or would MS-DOS 6 work ok?

Sorry, back on topic again! I found this news article that discusses PC Emulator versions: "Emulator Upgrades", Acorn User, January 1992.

It appears that some versions (product code AKA48) provide/support MS-DOS, whereas others (AKA45) provide/support DR-DOS, with the 1.70 version of the latter bundling DR-DOS 5. I guess there were later versions of the emulator with later versions of DR-DOS.

Also is it essential to have the Acorn specific DOS utilities, because if I do I guess it rules out MS-DOS 6 or a plain vanilla copy of DR-DOS 6?

If I do have to use the version of DR-DOS 6 that contains the Acorn specific DOS utilities, can anyone provide a legal link that doesn't 'break the law"?

Or maybe help with the Acorn specific DOS utilities only?

Thanks in advance.

I found the following on the Internet Archive:

Digital Research DR-DOS 3.41 (Acorn OEM) (3.5'")

The zip archive contains a disk image which I obviously cannot vouch for.

Earlier articles mention a mouse driver for use with MS-DOS, and maybe that was still needed in some form later on. I guess that a review of 4corn's manual section may provide more clues about what may or may not be absolutely required.

Meanwhile, I wonder if things like FreeDOS would work on the emulator.

[RonT]

I have just acquired a copy of the PC Emulator software.

Unfortunately it didn't come with the DR-DOS 6 discs.

On page v of the User guide it mentions that the DR-DOS 6 discs contains the operating system and standard DOS utilities together with Acorn specific DOS utilities that are for use with the PC Emulator.

Can anyone tell me if I have to use DR-DOS 6 or would MS-DOS 6 work ok?

Sorry, back on topic again! I found this news article that discusses PC Emulator versions: "Emulator Upgrades", Acorn User, January 1992.

It appears that some versions (product code AKA48) provide/support MS-DOS, whereas others (AKA45) provide/support DR-DOS, with the 1.70 version of the latter bundling DR-DOS 5. I guess there were later versions of the emulator with later versions of DR-DOS.

Also is it essential to have the Acorn specific DOS utilities, because if I do I guess it rules out MS-DOS 6 or a plain vanilla copy of DR-DOS 6?

If I do have to use the version of DR-DOS 6 that contains the Acorn specific DOS utilities, can anyone provide a legal link that doesn't 'break the law"?

Or maybe help with the Acorn specific DOS utilities only?

Thanks in advance.

I found the following on the Internet Archive:

Digital Research DR-DOS 3.41 (Acorn OEM) (3.5'")

The zip archive contains a disk image which I obviously cannot vouch for.

Earlier articles mention a mouse driver for use with MS-DOS, and maybe that was still needed in some form later on. I guess that a review of 4corn's manual section may provide more clues about what may or may not be absolutely required.

Meanwhile, I wonder if things like FreeDOS would work on the emulator.

Perfect Paul many thanks.

Ron